cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/17439723
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/17439722
Palestinian Territory – Israel’s army has again massacred Palestinian civilians who had gathered in Gaza to obtain humanitarian aid, targeting them with gunfire from helicopters, tanks, and drones near the Kuwait roundabout on the outskirts of Gaza City. This incident has resulted in over 60 deaths and 160 injuries, some of which are critical.
Is there any point at which the US would allow international pressure to end this genocide? When does it become strategically disadvantageous?
No because they’re the ones sponsoring it
LOOKS LIKE THE LEMMY CENORS ARE OUT IN FULL FORCE
This is the comment that I made that got removed:
Is there any point at which the US would allow international pressure to end this genocide?
No.
When does it become strategically disadvantageous?
Always. We literally had 9/11 because of Israel and still haven’t learned our lesson.
We are literally not allowed to say 9/11 happened because of Israel, despite the mastermind behind the attack literally saying that’s why he did it AND I even provided the source!
https://lemmy.world/comment/8465732
There are some horrible mods on this team with a clear agenda. We cannot trust them.
On Hexbear, mods will remove any mention of 9/11 in remembrance of Salvador Allende and the CIA backed Chilean coup. /s
The fact he said what was the reason of doing it does not mean he was right.
Removed by mod
Hmm. How is 9/11 because isreal?
https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl2016/english/To the American people.pdf
As for us, our Iraq was invaded in response to pressure from capitalists with greed for black gold, and you continue to support the oppressive Israelis in their occupation of our Palestine in response to pressures on your administration by a Jewish lobby backed by enormous financial capabilities.
Straight from the horse’s mouth, Osama bin Laden.
Damn son. He was very clear. I have never seen that document. He even concludes with it:
In conclusion: Be assured that we do not fight for mere killing but to stop the killing of our people. It is a sin to kill a person without proper, justifiable cause, but terminating his killer is a right. You should be aware that justice is the strongest army and security offers the best livelihood; you lost it by your own making when you supported the Israelis in occupying our land and killing our brothers in Palestine. The road to safety starts with the stopping of aggression.
I have never seen that document.
It went viral on tiktok a few years ago and they started banning anyone who shared it.
The propaganda war goes both ways, but a lot of useful idiots don’t realize that.
I think it’s sad how most people, including myself, only saw it after it went viral and not before we invaded.
Edit: It’s even sadder because my original comment highlighting how 9/11 happened because of Israel was removed.
This is what I mean by propaganda and indoctrination. There are even people on the mod team that have a vested interest in keeping the truth from people’s eyes if it’s inconvenient for Israel.
The way for change and freeing yourselves from the pressure of lobbyists is not through the Republican or the Democratic parties, but through undertaking a great revolution for freedom: not to free Iraq from Saddam Hussein but to free the White House and to free Barack Husayn so he can implement the change you seek. It does not only include improvement of your economic situation and ensure your security, but more importantly, helps him in making a rational decision to save humanity from the harmful [greenhouse] gases that threaten its destiny.
For the American youth to succeed in this change, they need to relive the history of their ancestors and the conditions in their country more than two centuries ago. They need to understand the similarities during that era and their present situation, especially in their fundamental conditions. The British Parliament sided with corporations, then against the interests
May I ask who this is a quote from? Is this also Bin Laden?
It’s from the link above I think that’s him yeah
(https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ubl2016/english/To the American people.pdf)
Right? It’s not like the people who perpetrated 9/11 actually told us exactly why they did it… Oh wait…
Eh man, I was barely born around that time. I had never seen or heard of the documents
Once the job is done.
West will never stop supporting Israel. It’s just still more advantageous to tolerate its war crimes rather than having states like Iran and terrorist groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah with nuclear weapons.
The current government of Iran and Hamas are both reactions caused by US meddling in the Middle East. The CIA actively led a campaign to get Iranians to turn on a democratic government -> supported Reza Shah -> which lead to the 1979 revolution which established the current government.
So what should US do? Calmly sit down and shout: “We are bad, please kill us.”
Edit: Also, what you are essentially doing is picking a specific point of time in history, dubbing a it a root cause and then you excuse the other side’s actions. By this logic, let’s blame the city of Rome for the conflict in the middle east because if Romans hadn’t forced out jews thousands years ago, this wouldn’t have happened. So all Israel’s war crimes are actually Romans’ fault, so now let’s collectively blame them.
So what should US do? Calmly sit down and shout: “We are bad, please kill us.”
Not build a country on land in use. If you can’t do that, at least leave them alone. Not a single West Bank city can develop anymore since it would just collide into the area near the settlements (which would lead to getting shot). At least leave them alone.
Also, what you are essentially doing is picking a specific point of time in history, dubbing a it a root cause and then you excuse the other side’s actions.
I’m not sure what you mean by this? Maybe you are confusing me with someone else?
Rome for the conflict in the middle east because if Romans hadn’t forced out jews thousands years ago, this wouldn’t have happened.
The Jews did come back already, a long time ago. Then they converted to Christianity and then to Islam: https://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/jews.html
So all Israel’s war crimes are actually Romans’ fault, so now let’s collectively blame them.
This is technically anti-Semitic. Not all Jews are the same. Some are black, some are white, some are Middle Eastern.
Not as long as Democrat politicians know they can continue to count on our votes while they take money from the Zionist lobby and do their bidding. But don’t you dare suggest not voting for Genocide Joe on here. Anyone who would suggest such a thing must be an astroturfing Trump troll. After all, what’s a little genocide in the big picture?
PS: The Zionist lobby isn’t an antisemitic dog whistle. In the US, the Zionist lobby probably gets more support from rabid fundamentalist Christians who think Israel’s ascendancy will trigger the end times than from Jews. That’s been true since the Blackstone Memorial was circulated in 1891.
Why are you acting like Trump wouldn’t support the genocide? It’s not a choice between genocide and not, so yes you are in fact just trolling for trump.
This isn’t the trolley problem. We have other options. We could force Biden to step aside and have an open convention. If that doesn’t happen, I’ll vote for Cornel West or Jill Stein or Claudia De la Cruz.
Ok Dimitri, please tell us how you’ll vote in a US election as a Russian living in St Petersburg?
Well I guess he’s definitely voting for Biden after calling them a Russian troll. Great job 👏
They always land on ad hominem attacks in the end. Very compelling stuff
I somehow have a Russian and Chinese dual citizenship as a bot. 🤖 /s
Nationalism is a helluva drug.
Grow up.
It’s not that Trump wouldn’t support the genocide, he certainly would. But as long as Democrats feel they can also support the genocide without repercussions, they will do so to enrich themselves. Republicans aren’t going to change, there’s little point trying to push them on this. But if democrats think that this issue is the difference between winning and losing an election (and thus potentially limiting their ability to enrich themselves), there’s a smidge of a chance they’d at least cut funding or something.
Cool strategy bro. Let’s play Chicken with our politics. That’s some real 4D chess there.
I mean, it’s not like our entire political infrastructure and way of lives could be determined by the next election.
You’re right, I guess we need to do nothing while thousands of children slowly starve to death before our eyes. I suppose it’s just a sacrifice we have to make.
This is dumb.
Destroying your own livelihood is not going to stop the Gazan Massacre. It’d be like if you threatened to burn down your local hospital if they don’t start admitting more uninsured people. Your actions will help no one, and make things worse for everyone.
You want to fix a problem? Then take steps to actually fixing them. Not threatening to destroy everything around you like a fucking child.
How’s this, why don’t you go burn down your home or your parents home as a form of protest. It’ll really make a message about the destroyed homes in Gaza. Oh, your not going to do it? I guess your just as bad as I am. Hypocrite.
Me: Don’t vote for someone guilty of genocide
You: Burn down your house or you’re a hypocrite
No one wants to hear it discussed because it’s a fucking dumb strategy, like, what effect do you think it’ll actually have? You vote for the guy that’s most likely to actually do something about it rather than vote to sink the entire fucking ship because your having a temper tantrum. You’re insane if you think that’s even a remotely viable strategy. I can’t believe you’re even bringing it up like it’s a “good” idea…like wtf.
You can check my post history. I’m rabidly against this genocide. The IDF has gone unchecked and their treatment of an “enemy populace” is a fucking warcrime. Something needs to be done. But if you think for a second that I or any other rational adult here is going to even remotely humor the idea of doing something that could get Trump elected, you are out of your damned mind.
The entire fucking ship is committing a genocide
No, we’re not commiting a genocide. There’s just not enough pressure to stop a strategic ally (that’s armed with nukes, mind you) from doing horrific actions. There’s been a shit ton of verbal posturing from all of our allies over this, but no one else has done a damned thing either. I’m not going to tank my country because of it either. What does that accomplish? Congratulations bro, your morally superior. Hope that’ll keep you chipper in the American gulag if Trumpelstiltskin gets elected.
You’re arguing with a Kremlin shill, better to just tag them and move on… they want to frustrate you and waste your time.
77 GROUPS WORLDWIDE BACK GENOCIDE LAWSUIT AGAINST BIDEN IN U.S. COURT
That’s a lot of Kremlin shills.
Tagged
It is literally our shells and bombs which our client state is using to kill children while we are the lone veto in the UN Security Council vote for a ceasefire. Obama and Reagan–yes, Ronald Reagan–withheld weapon shipments to Israel over far less. All Biden has to do is follow his own policy which prohibits providing arms that will likely be used to violate human rights. Instead, he has refused to even place conditions on the weapons he gives to Israel, conditions he has been happy to place on arms transfers to Ukraine.
Biden is not merely complicit. He’s a willful participant. He’s a war criminal.
I disagree with all of this, and find it to be an emotionally stunted and shallow take on a very complex issue.
How many genocidal deaths per month (under a dem administration) would it take for you to withhold your vote for a dem? 1 thousand, 1 million, 10 million? I suspect there is no amount.
Let me rephrase this better:
How many genocidal deaths (in a totally different country than your own) per month would it take for you to destroy your government and see it overtaken by an Alt-Right Dictatorship? 1 thousand, 1 million, 10 million? I suspect there is no amount.
It’d be on thing if “a dem administration” was the one causing the genocide. They aren’t. But I agree that they could be doing more to stop it. It won’t get better under Trump, so this game of “Morality chicken” your playing with our entire future here is fucking dumb.
They’re more concerned about their “livelihood” than doing the right thing.
The daily death toll on Israel has been plummetting by 20% per month since the beginning of the conflict.
Nope. Not as long as we can continue our comfortable lives over here. Not as long as it’s people who don’t look like us–who don’t speak our language–doing the dying. Not as long as we can block “Gaza” from our feed when it starts to become a real downer.
When one of the most powerful nations in the world becomes a dictatorship, how do you think that’ll affect the world? What do you think happens to the last 200 years of progress? What do you think will continue to happen in Gaza?
It isn’t like this is an isolated decision. Not voting has a very real and fucking dangerous consequence, and you need to realize that sometimes there aren’t good decisions and you have to make the best of it. Sitting out and pouting doesn’t do shit but make things worse for everyone else. So stop acting like a petulant child. No one in this entire fucking thread is even remotely supportive of genocide, but you’ll be damned if I’m going to see my country become a dictatorship because of events in other countries because one side “isn’t doing enough”.
What do you think happens when the people of the most powerful democracy in the world look the other way when their elected officials commit genocide?
Israel is an example of what a country shouldn’t be like.
every country supporting israel it’s also an example of what countries shouldn’t be like
Yet if you look at the neighboring countries, it’s better in almost every way.
I say “almost” because there could be some minor ways that some neighbor surpasses them.
Except that Jordan is peaceful and in the Arabian/Gulf countries the government takes care of you instead of eradicating you…
Not really, pretty much no Arab country respects human rights. Israel does (of course if you are Israeli citizen and not Palestinian).
Despite that, it’s still far better than any country close to it.
“Respects human rights as long as you’re the right kind of human” is hardly something to be proud of
If you don’t have human rights for a land’s native population; you are a country that infringes on human rights. It’s very simple. Plus, Palestine is a secular nation and it borders other secular nations like Lebanon (well at least the region of Palestine does). Unlike the country that believes in “old testament justice.”
Even in Jordan, which is NOT a secular country, as long as you don’t display physical affection in public (which is frowned upon on all groups) you’ll be fine. I have even heard of white gay people moving to Amman because they said the people there mind their own business (I can’t find the link to this anymore).
Well, you stated that in Amman people mind their own business when talking about gays, in Israel gays can adopt children. Does any other country around recognize gay relationships and allow them to adopt children? Are pride parades allowed anywhere in the region (apart from Israel)?
About Lebanon: maybe it is a secular country but still has been marked as an authoritarian regime by economist with a score of 3.56 (for comparison, Israel has a score of roughly 7.9). So I don’t think we have to argue which regime is more oppressive towards the citizens.
You also mentioned that each country should have human rights for native population. I do not necessarily understand how that applies to Israel. Israel has laws for their citizens and Palestinian authorities have laws for Palestinians. The fact Palestinian government oppresses their people with their laws is not Israel’s fault. There are many things Israel is guilty of but this is not one of them.
Palestinians live under Israeli Occupation and 50 years of dispossession. Palestinians are denied civil rights and subject to Military Court
At the mercy of Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, have No freedom of movement, and also denied Water stolen and extorted by the occupying forces.
Palestinian Labor is also heavily exploited as they have no workers rights either: Haaretz, MEE, 972, CMEC
Gaza is under control by Israel’s Blockade which is still internationally recognized as Occupation.
They are not Israeli citizens.
Yeah, because Israel doesn’t treat the West Bank and Gaza as trash.
They do, but Palestinians are not Israeli citizens.
Rojava is right there.
there could be some minor ways that some neighbor surpasses them.
Like, not being actively engaged in a genocide.
Massacre upon massacre.
Yet the Zionist stranglehold on our politicians continues
Fuck israel. All my homies hate israel.
"This incident has resulted in over 60 deaths and 160 injuries, some of which are critical”
The rest are of them very mild… Don’t spend more than a minute sweating one of the most formidable war machines on Earth obstructing you and family’s access to rudimentary first aid. Just throw a kerchief around that hemorrhaging stump where your 3 year old’s left leg used to be, and enjoy the lovely Mediterranean spring weather
And there are still people denying this is a genocide.
I heard a really interesting interview on NPR with Ofer Cassif, the head of an Israeli socialist party who just survived impeachment. He advocates for South Africa’s genocide ICC case. But what was more interesting to me was how he was talking about how Netanyahu is using this as an excuse to turn Israel into a dictatorship, something he already tried with his attempt to reform their supreme court.
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/13/1224635827/israeli-lawmaker-on-the-u-n-genocide-case-against-israel
The colonial apartheid state of israel is genociding Palestinian with support from western countries.
Israel should be sanctioned like North Korea until they stop their genocide.
demons
Its like crocodiles in a watering hole
If they do that 3 or 4 hundred more times Joe Biden might be VERY angry and give them a couple Billion dollars LESS next time!
You people really believe this is the case? They bring the aid, wait for people to come and then kill bunch of them. Then they repeat this process weekly. You seriously think this is what’s happening? So are inhabitants of Gaza stupid or have gold-fish memory? Naah, don’t think about it bro. Israel bad mkay.
I understand the desire to believe that such a disgusting war crime isn’t actually happening - that it’s all propaganda. This kind of thing is sickening if it’s true.
But I don’t see any evidence that this isn’t exactly what’s happening, and with plenty of evidence that it is we cannot let it continue or offer any support to those who are carrying it out.
Hamas has been leading media war forever. Which is the reason why they don’t care if civilians die because that makes Israel look bad. They said this themselves number of times. We’ve had the whole fiasco with bomb on parking lot where Hamas immediately blamed Israel and gave stupid number of casualties and it took months for independent review on the matter to prove it wrong. By that time everyone jumped on the wagon about Israel bombing hospital.
There are more than one example of this sickening behavior from Hamas. They are the torturers, slaughterers and rapists. And yet majority of people here refuses to believe they might be the one causing issues like these to make Israel look bad. It is actually unbelievable to me that you’d rather believe this is a trap set by Israel with aid where the moment people approach they start shooting, and people of Gaza keep coming back. Stretching your beliefs so hard to blame one party that it borders insanity.
Burden of proof is on the one making claims. Show a video of Israelis shooting on civilians. Everyone has a phone these days and yet not a single photo. Not a single video. We have videos where Hamas is beating civilians and chasing them away from aid. We sure have that, but then people come and say “ah that’s photoshop” that’s fake. There’s NOTHING here. And yet everyone claims it’s true.
Look, I hate Hamas plenty. They are definitely bad guys. They commit terror attacks against Israeli civilians, they use Palestinian civilians as human shields. I have never rooted for them.
But the rules of warfare are quite simple. You cannot under any circumstance deliberately kill civilians. Not if the enemy killed yours first. Not if the enemy uses their own as shields. Civilians are NEVER fair game.
This kind of shit separates the good guys from the bad guys. When Hamas slaughted 1,000 Israeli civilians they showed how bad they are, but Israel slaughtering 25,000+ Palestinian women and children is literally 25x worse.
There are no good guys here, other than the civilians who aren’t choosing to participate in this conflict.
That’s the whole point. I simply can’t accept this claim civilians are so stupid that they keep coming back for aid and keep getting killed. It’s disgusting to insinuate this kind of thing. And while I do agree civilian deaths are never fair game, I can’t but wonder how many of those 25k died because they were not allowed to move or migrate. Kind of how Hamas shot at people using humanitarian corridor to move away from north. Or how they shot at people trying to leave hospitals and other buildings.
I am finding it disgusting that people are sitting and pointing fingers at Israel and others. You know what would have prevented 100% of those 25k victims, not attacking on october 7th. Or any previous occasion.
Genocide Denial is a bad look especially when it’s happening right in front of your face. People are pointing fingers at Israel because Israel is commiting genocide.
The Palestinian people aren’t stupid, they are desperate, because they are under attack by the IDF and their allies.
This one?
The IDF reports that Palestinian gunmen fired at civilians waiting for aid at Kuwait Square in Gaza City last night, resulting in casualties. IDF troops did not fire during the incident.
As per the IDF’s investigation, a convoy of 31 trucks carrying food and humanitarian aid for civilians was en route to northern Gaza. An hour before reaching an IDF-established corridor, armed Palestinians shot at civilians waiting for the aid trucks, according to the probe.
The IDF states that as the aid trucks entered the corridor, the gunmen continued shooting while some Gazans began looting the trucks. The IDF also observed civilians being run over by the trucks.
Hamas health officials reported at least 21 deaths and over 150 injuries in the incident.
After an intensive preliminary review, the IDF concluded that its forces did not fire at the aid convoy at Kuwait Square. The military’s operational systems and troops on the ground did not engage in tank shelling, airstrikes, or gunfire toward the Gazan crowd during the aid convoy’s presence.
https://twitter.com/Osint613/status/1768585030412976318?s=19
The past hundred or so ‘IDF reports’ have been complete lies. Maybe this one will be true.
-some 🤡
I don’t know. A tweet from @OSINT845254459 is a very reliable source of information. /s
Why are you posting Israeli propaganda lol?
Is this string only for Hamas propaganda?
When was the last time someone quoted Hamas here?
The truth is Hamas propaganda now haha.
For anyone that wants to have a laugh here’s a funny video
Obviously anything that shows Israel doing bad things is hamas
It supports Hamas but it’s Kremlin propaganda.
Correct.
Falling for “The IDF reports” is as bad as eating the onion at this point
So, terrorist fired at civilians and IDF just watched. How is this better?
Well, the last time this happened in northern Gaza about a week ago, Israel was blamed for the deaths of the people rioting. I suppose they for sure sat back and watched it happen. They would be blamed anyway. Oh look. They were.
Anyway, what occurs to me is that these Egyptian truck drivers, sooner or later, are going to stop delivering aid no matter how much money they make. Can’t spend it when you have bullet wounds. Israel will be blamed for that too.
Why wouldn’t they be blamed for that? Or any of the other atrocities they’ve committed?
Maybe they didn’t do what it was claimed they did.
Removed by mod
My what a grace and logic filled message…
So which category do you fall into? I’ve got a hunch.
Sure. Well, since they don’t seem to use any bullets all the time, maybe they should accept a ceasefire right now and a peace treaty in the near future, recognizing the Palestinians’ right to exist in their own territory. How about that?
