Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Owns Rockstar Games, Zynga and 2K. So if that’s all their games, it includes at least these: Bioshock series, Borderlands series, Civilization series, Grand Theft Auto series, Mafia series, Max Payne series, NBA 2K series, PGA Tour 2K series, Red Dead series, WWE 2K series and XCOM series.
Amazing stuff!
That’s just a list of games that used to be good and now suck.
I object to that for XCOM
True, it was always bad :p
If a game, application, device or EULA changes in a way you find unacceptable, after you’ve purchased it, you should be able to get your initial purchase price back. And if you paid with your data, you need to be able to demand they delete all your data. I think that law would be entirely reasonable and would do a lot of good.
- Did the EULA change? ✅
- Were all Take Two games automatically updated in secret and now hijack your machine with root access to spy on everything you do? ❌
- Do Take Two games contain code to report telemetry and user information(including application/system activity) to a home server? ✅
- Is this EULA change extraordinary and particularly egregious in comparison to others that most people have probably already agreed to? ✅(IMO)
- Are people riled up because e a YouTube video went a little viral and now they’re all playing telephone to the point where it’s now gotten to the point of random dumdums are review booming a 13 year old game claiming it’s turned into literal spyware? ✅(again, IMO)
- Should you be surprised by any of this if you’ve been even remotely paying attention for any period of the last 30-40 years? ❌
Its a bit more than that:
A bit more than what, not really sure what your point here is? All of those bullet points are similar if not identical to terms in other EULAs half the people in this thread have already clicked thru.
I’ll say it again, if you think this is anything new you haven’t been paying attention. I’m all for calling this fuckery out and pushing for something better. But like where yall been?
I don’t click thru any EULAs. I see bad EULA - I pirate. Then if it makes any network traffic i just block that shit.
yo ho
What point are you trying to make? You say you’re “all for calling this kind of fuckery out” but then you’re criticizing people for calling it out? And who cares what other EULAs might say? The point is that the license agreement for this game and others owned by this company didn’t say this shit before, and now they do. The company is actively making their user agreement more hostile to the users which is what people are pissed about.
That it takes more critical thinking to accomplish the organized action needed for real change than leaving a bunch of negative reviews.
I never once said ‘other company’s do it so just deal with it.’ Fuckawhataboutism. I said “if you think this is new, you haven’t been paying attention.” What I shouldn’t have left unsaid was ‘the review is a nice start and show of intention. but we need a lot more dedicated, well organized action, to actually accomplish any change.’
But people read into things what they want to hear.
Let’s ride the wave. Turn this into a huge controversy known industry-wide. Then, next game that comes out with EULA like this, we say “THIS GAME HAS A BORDERLANDS-STYLE EULA”. Pretend it’s new to exploit the shock value and get the gamers riled up. Then, the industry gets better.
Tell the frog that the pot wasn’t always this hot.
Thank you for an actually constructive response. You’ve honestly brought me around a bit with this.
If more folks are waking up and shaking a stick at it or doing something but blindly click through (thus legally unenforceable) EULAs I’m all for it.
Better late than never.
I see this kind of comment before and I will never understand it - “other companies do it so just bend over and let us do it to you too!”
People say this all the time about Denuvo too: “Other games already have Denuvo, why are you crying about it here when you’re playing other games?”
And see, that’s the problem - we aren’t playing those other Denuvo games. And same thing applies here, guess what, a lot of us aren’t buying games from gross companies like EA with these shit terms. So when a company we are doing business with suddenly changes their terms to be shit, that’s a valid complaint. Some of us have already been boycotting bad business practices in the industry, so the idea of company changing terms towards the boycott after we’ve already invested in the game feels like a betrayal because it is.
So maybe stop focusing on what you assume the rest of audience is doing and instead go back to focusing on what the people at the goddamn podium are trying to pull?
Why does everyone insist on adding the ‘so just bend over and take’ part whenever someone points out another source of wrongdoing? Like what do yall always take it to mean that the speaker is implying a whataboutism argument? And not maybe as ‘oh shit this has been going on longer than just this maybe we should learn about that too and we might figure out why it hasn’t been stopped yet.’
If “everyone” keeps reading a sentiment you did not intend out of your message, perhaps it is time to consider that you are doing a poor job of communicating your point.
Or you’re being disingenuous and just don’t like being calling on your hissy fit.
I dunno, take your pick.
It’s the first one, I’m terrible at effectively communicating nuanced points.
And I mean yall could interrogate the statement instead of reaching a conclusion and then responding but I get it.
But also, fuck that. Do more work as the reader.
Also, piss off with your infantilizing ‘hissy fit’ bullshit.
Some people will always find an excuse to change nothing.
It doesn’t matter how many similar EULA’s people have already accepted. The best moment to not eat it anymore would have been the first time it happened, the second best time is right now.
Also, retroactively amending an EULA is a different quality, since people have already paid for the game and would be locked out after the fact if they didn’t accept.
I’m sad you read this as an admission of defeat and an attempt to deter others from fighting. Was hoping for more of a ‘you’re late, you have a bunch of homework to catch up on’ vibe but I’m not great at communicating all the time.
It seems like you’re giving of a “victim” vibe with this by stating you wished for only a particular type of “positive response” when you’ve posted a misleading comment and doubled-down with “EULAs half the people in this thread have already clicked thru” which you have no way of knowing.
Were all Take Two games automatically updated in secret and now hijack your machine with root access to spy on everything you do? ❌
10.2. Updates, Modifications, and Sunset. We may provide patches, updates, or upgrades to the Services, Virtual Items, Content, or your Account that may be required for you to continue using the Services, including automatic or “in the background” updates without notice to you.
“Was hoping for more of a ‘you’re late, you have a bunch of homework to catch up on’” You’re expecting others to hold your hand and inform you of every event or action taken by every company. I guess I’ll do my part since I have been trying to let other people know for a while now,
StormGate - Privacy Policy and End User Agreement. Is this just the new industry standard to avoid? (post made by me 10 months ago)
Why don’t you see it more?
Steam Discussion deleted after questioning the “EULA” of Stormgate, another post by me after I tried to inform others and was suppressed, meaning the reviews is the only course of action that most have at their disposal. Even posting on their official subreddit did no good with the exact same type of response you’ve presented here,
Why am I consenting to have my “Medical Information”, “Browser/Search History”, “Social Security/Drivers License number”, “Geolocation and movements”, and more collected to play Stormgate? (22k members, only 122 upvotes)
(the responses)
- They didn’t collect such information (they technically couldn’t), they are giving examples of such types of personally identifiable information.
- Yeah, it’s excessive, they don’t need half of this. However, writing it this way makes it near impossible for them to screw up by accident. If you play games, you probably agreed to a handful of ELUA’s like that by now.
- This keeps getting brought up in every controversial game these days and the answer is always the same: They aren’t.
- Most of this is not out of the ordinary.
- Imagine thinking all of this information about you isn’t already owned by several corporations lol.
- Some of these stuffs are required in X countries not yours, stop thinking the entire world is all about you buddy.
You’ve officially become part of the problem and an ally to the very same reason why we can’t “accomplish the organized action needed for real change (than leaving a bunch of negative reviews.)”
Would it shock you to know that ALL of these are in the Steam terms of service also?
The only really sus one to me is the forced arbitration clause, and Steam also had that til they were pressured to remove it by multiple legal cases, including a class action brought to them by Steam users just last September. It is only sus because it’s outdated - companies are generally removing them now rather than adding them. https://www.legal.io/articles/5540864/Valve-Removes-Mandatory-Arbitration-from-Steam-Subscriber-Agreement
RE: remaining top 5 bullet points, 3 of the remaining 4 bullet points are uncontroversial bullet points about anticheat. The fourth is banning modding, which is also just a heavy handed anticheat attempt, and not uncommon for online games to add to their ToS to allow banning at their discretion. Either way its clumsy at the least as some mods can be harmless eg HUD mods for colourblind people and deserves some negativity - but not to this level, given everything else is just so boilerplate.
Collected data types: these are all for if you buy stuff with a credit card / paypal / etc off 2k/parent company Take 2. Remember, they sell games with in-game purchases. They also have an app which has location permissions option which is what the precise location is about.
So yes - again, as OP said, this is nothing controversial if you have paid attention to ToS meaning and content over the past 20 years.
Aside from the forced arbitration crap - which Steam, Microsoft, Amazon, Lyft, Uber, Google, AT&T - and hundreds of other major companies all snuck into their ToS over the years, and many have now been legally pressured to remove by consumer rights group. That is stupid because it shows their legal team is behind the times, companies are mostly removing their forced arbitration clauses nowadays because it has been the cause of many lost class actions.
Precise location information? Wtf for?
They use the same terms of service for mobile games and they just dont bother to change it for pc games.
This mistake makes sense to make as a mistake. But also, that’s fuckin asinine
It isn’t a mistake. Writing different EULA for each game costs more money than writing an overly aggressive one that covers most cases.
So that they can have a back door to as many private computers as possible.
Oh honey, what’s any of it for?
Hyper Localized Advertising. Welcome back o the future :(
I just saw an advertisement for a custom T-shirt:
“That’s right, I’m a December dad, who lives at 62a, with size 10 feet and prescription glasses…”/S
“By scrolling past, you agree to sharing with us (and our affiliates) the following collected data types: …”
Pretty much nailed it, yep.
A youtuber named Hellfire has been on a spree, basically discovering how fucked up EULAs have been in games for the past 20ish years… well this is all brand new news to him and and his Zoomer / Gen A followers.
There is, as of right now, literally zero evidence that Borderlands 2 has been updated with a rootkit, with kernel level anti cheat, anything like that.
The last update to its game files was 2 years ago.
This is almost certainly them updating the EULA everywhere, the precise timing of this being for some specific arcane legal and business reasons… TakeTwo runs a whole bunch more games than juat Borderlands… namely GTA V…
…
Is this EULA bad? Yes.
Is it much worse than it was before, or what other large gaming companies EULAs have, and have had for… a decade+?
Maybe by a bit, but not really, no.
…
Is Randy Pitchford a dumb idiot asshole?
Oh absolutely yes, but that shouldn’t give people the liscense to make completely unevidenced claims about other things.
…
The game does not have a kernel level AC or some kind of rootkit DRM, as many, many people are currently saying it does.
I guess gamer attention span can really hold onto a few keywords and phrases at a time.
… I say this all as person who is vehemently against kernel level AC, who has been pointing out for 4 years, that almost all existing anti cheat systems currently have at least one game that implements their AC, on linux, without using kernel level anything… it is entirely possible to do AC without kernel level shit, even on linux, and has been for at least 4 years. EAC and BattleEye have supported linux for 4 years, but nearly no game that uses them has actually used this feature/available and offered support.
I am glad that this level of hate is finally being directed at shitty EULAs, but lets at least get our facts straight, or actually provide some hitherto unseen evidence that Borderlands has had some kind of sleeper malware in it for at least the past two years, just waiting to be activated by a TOS update to every single Take Two game.
So…if Steam is running in a Flatpak, and Borderlands is launched from Steam, how much can they even see…really?
You can install an application like Flatseal (https://flathub.org/apps/com.github.tchx84.Flatseal) to inspect the permissions for a flatpak.
How locked down a flatpak is depends entirely on the developer and what permissions they request. By default, they can’t really see much. For example, they can’t even see the processes running on your host or your user and system files.
Flatpak does not do anything about network access though, it can only do no access or full access, no in between. The data they can collect on Linux in a Flatpak is very limited but it does not prevent them from calling home.
They know I use Linux and that means they know too much
Not a lot. Even when it isn’t a flatpak windows software running on linux won’t be able to interact with the system anywhere near as deeply as on windows.
They’ll be able to tell it’s linux, though.
New to linux…are flatpaks like sandboxed?
Sort of. They can be, but are not always.
They are somewhat isolated but not sandboxed.
So…if Steam is running in a Flatpak, and Borderlands is launched from Steam, how much can they even see…really?
Without using exploits to escape the container, not much. A very empty Windows environment with a single game installed, your network interfaces and any directories that the Flatpak has access to (usually just the SteamLibrary directories).
The TOS (https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/) changes are mostly related to data that they collect via their interfacing with Steam and through their website. This idea that they’re requiring you to agree to a root level access or installing a spyware rootkit are just nonsense.
You literally posted the answer to your question. Here is an expansion of the details.
Due to Steam’s tos updates a few months ago, isn’t take-two opening itself up to a massive lawsuit?
No idea, but I think it would be funny, so I’m all for it and hope you are right.
Hm… Ok. Thats crazy. Someone wants to create a new branch of income ot seems.
Thats a ficking shame. Now I need to reconsider my plans to buy Borderlands4.
But how will they do it? Which information is gathered from which source? Most of my accounts only hold as little informations as possible. Also my Os know nothing about me. My MS account too.
On the other hand my steam 2FA need some mobile information.
Checkout Jump Ship? It’s some weird borderlands, Star citizen, (insert other generic shooter) type game. Pretty neat, was recommended to me by a shooter fanatic friend of mine. I trust his shooting game opinion
oh cool, I can see that it’s similar Borderlands by the screenshots, and I can see that it’s like Star Citizen because it’s not actually released yet and they’re taking money for early access.
Hah exactly :D
😂😂
Unless you use Linux, your OS knows a ton about you. On top of that, with root access to your computer they can do whatever they want and if their system gets hacked you become a member of a bot farm or crypto mine.
Well I use Linux, but not on my gaming pc. I would switch to it because its all amd, but I don’t want to because it lacks the driver suite for my gpu (adrenaline) and I don’t want to install a bunch of small applications to gain a small fraction of options it offers.
It’s a pitty. Because I realy want to ditch windows since its newest iteration.
I haven’t read the new TOS but if this review is correct it looks like a GDPR nightmare for them. Good luck to them explaining why they need to collect all that personal data.
That might be US only, where the companies have freedom to get all the customer’s data and do with it as they will.
The list where this doesn’t apply seems to basically be every country with consumer protection laws.
They obviously know this won’t fly pretty much anywhere other than the US so that’s all they’re trying to push.
Do we know this is a thing in the EU?
I just read the german version and compared them a little. (https://www.take2games.com/privacy/de/) Its about the same. But ist also reads fairly normal like any other privacy policy. I also think its in line with EU law. The collected data always relates to whatever TakeTwo service you use and whatever data you provide voluntarily or technically by using it. Thats fine by EU law.
Most people don’t care about privacy.
Most people in the western civilized world are on Facebook, so…
Sad truth, but it’s no excuse.
but ask those same people whether facebook should be allowed to collect and use all that data, and people will generally say ‘no’.
The “collected data types” in that comment seems to be copy/pasted from the privacy policy
I didn’t enjoy the Handsome Collection but free is free. Thanks for sharing.
the game’s store page doesn’t mention that it requires root access, like it does for some other games. am i missing something?
Maybe it’s hidden in the in-game eula and they’re using their launcher to collect all that info before we even get to agree or disagree.
Yikes. Is the review in the screenshot true? They got root anticheat? Or rootkit data harvesting?
No, it’s misinformation and people who uncritically repeat things without verification.
I’ve had the game installed for years and have to manually apply updates, there hasn’t been one. e: I just checked, last update in Steam is dated 2022
All they’ve done is make their TOS universal across all of their games.
He said it, root access level in the TOS of BorderLand. Not that a root kit is included, but that they allowed them self to inclid it whenever they can. That not misinformation…
He said it
That not misinformation…
It is misinformation if the things he said are not true.
So, let’s look into the claims.
Here’s the TOS:
https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/
There is nothing about root level access.
In addition, if you look at the patch history for Borderlands 2 on SteamDB, you will see that the last update for the game was 4 August 2022.
So, to be clear:
There is nothing in the TOS that requires you to submit to a rootkit and there is no spyware that has been added. The comment in the OP is simply wrong.
This is what happens when you simply read social media and repeat what you’ve heard without checking to see if you’re spreading misinformation.
I’m really curious on what actual specific steps you took to “check”. It took me about a few minutes of reading to find it.
https://www.take2games.com/privacy/en-US/#3-sources-of-information
We also may use internal and third-party anti-cheat technologies to detect and prevent cheating within our Services.
Furthermore, https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/#10-availability specifically section 10.2
We may provide patches, updates, or upgrades to the Services, Virtual Items, Content, or your Account that may be required for you to continue using the Services, including automatic or “in the background” updates without notice to you.
I hope the people who upvoted your misinformation are able to see this, please think of your actions and conduct before posting multiple comments defending a company if you’re worried about misinformation.
That… doesn’t actually rebut anything FauxLiving said. That they may use anti-cheat, and that they may have automatic updates, aren’t the claims in question here.
Ummm those two would statements would in fact allow them to install a “anticheat” rookit/kernel program at any time without your knowledge…
Sincerely thank you for commenting. I was completely dumbfounded with @Warl0k3@lemmy.world’s statement and wasn’t sure if I wanted to waste my time with a response if it was just trolling.
He said they added a kernel level anticheat in the TOS which is true. But they seem to have not included it in the game yet. But they and and by possedong the game you allow them to.
possedong
I’d like to know how your autocorrect learned this word
That’s a typo from an i to an o, commenter probably meant possessing but made a mistake and tried to type posseding, I suspect their native language is french given their username and “to possess” in french is “posséder”.
That being said, a possedong sounds intriguing
Do you do osint ? … That pretty Mich on point. I use a English/French keyboard and sometime autocorrect do strange things.
I had to look this up… looks like it’s a whole thing
Don’t speak I’ll of steam and billionaire Gabe around here. The steam bros are gonna crucify you for daring to even think ill of THEIR corporation and THEIR billionaire who of course loves and cares for them all.
Your mom is wrong. You are not even slightly cool.
This thread makes me wish we could have a discussion community where we exclude Americans. Even the left are nuts over there now. Nothing but name calling and shit slinging. Glad your country is drowning
Cry moar, I’ll never see your blocked ass again :-)
Hahaha, you killed me. XD You have problem with the default country ?
What’s Steam got to do with Borderlands 2 having a rootkit?
If this was on PSN or the Nintendo shop, everyone downvoting me would be up in arms blaming Sony and Nintendo
Making up scenarios and claiming to know what the response would be sure is a way to make an argument.
I mean, the worse most laughable way, but it’s a way indeed.
Objection! Speculative
But it’s not. So don’t make up scenarios and then claim persecution when people downvote you.
You’re right that it’s not Valve they’re mad at, buuuuut…
They could regulate that no games they sell can have rootkits and delist the ones that do, as well as offer refunds if a rootkit is patched in in the future. They have lots of rules already, and I don’t think that would be a bad one.
That’s a nice thought, and they should do that, but you’ve gotta do better at picking and choosing your moments
I’m not the guy that guy replied to.
Just a random guy who thinks Gabe can put his foot down with these publishers. They already all tried going without Steam and they came crawling back.
So should Walmart stop selling products that I deem unfit based on my personal preferences too? Say goodbye to animal fats, products made in the US, ultra processed foods, some fruit I just don’t like the taste of, all Nestlé products…
I think you get the point.
If somebody put strychnine in the guacamole, I’d expect Walmart to remove it from the shelves and offer refunds to anyone that bought it.
If somebody distributed malware through Steam, I’d expect them to stop it also.
Not that there is currently malware in Borderlands 2, but their EULA says they could put it there if they wanted, and there’s nothing you could do about it.
As usual, money is the best message. So if they do put it into a game you’ve paid for, request a refund. If Valve starts losing money, they will change their rules.
Steam refunded me multiple time for game where EULA changed and I disagreed with it. I told them that the EULA changed to include spyware capabilities and I don’t agree with the EULA change.
I didnt realize Steam would do that. There have been several times where EULAs changed or malware was added a year or more later and I just assumed I had no recourse.
Dépend on the backslash they get. I have to admit it didn’t work each time. Last time I did it was for a psn account requirement added after they sold it
I actually tried this with BL2 last week and got told “no, you’ve owned it for almost 10 years”
I find it hard to disagree with that notion, but also have a pirated copy with my saves backed up ready to fucking go
Is this because Embracer sold Borderlands to Take-Two last year?
It’s because Take Two came out with a fuck-you-in-the-ass EULA for all their games. I actually look forward to boycotting someone, there’s too much free and discounted shit everywhere
🏴☠️ is free and without shenanigans.
giving root level access to russian crackers instead
Shh, the kids don’t want to hear about the dark side of free things (oh hey, a new Meta service!)
/s
Damn, its such a shame you can’t run a crack in a vm, or on linux via WINE and Proton, aw shucks.
and then run whatever modified code it just deployed on the host, yea
A game with a malicious crack that can escape a VM running on Windows and get to the main OS?
Sure, possible, but not by any means common.
A game with a malicious crack made for Windows that can… do anything nefarious when you’re running it on linux via WINE and Proton?
… Theoretically possible, but I’ve never heard of this actually occuring.
The same, but also inside another linux OS inside of a Bottle or Distrobox… or full VM… all running on a linux system that is significantly atomized with a read only core-os?
… At that point I am quite doubtful anyone is bothering to make a malicious crack that capable… when 99% of the existing game trainers and hacks that you can find or buy online… only work on Windows.
The crowd of people making game exploits and cheat engines… and the crowd of people making malicious game cracks… that venn diagram is almost a circle… and 99% of these people do not bother to ‘support’ linux, in anyway, at all, with anything they do.
Is using any random cracked software ever 100% safe? No.
But neither is say, using a Windows system, with 0 cracks or hacks… but with a MSFT trusted vendor’s 3rd party anti malware software… where said trusted vendor is allowed to push an unverified update to their kernel level anti-malware system… that is actually malformed, and then knocks out about 1/4 of every enterprise Windows PCs on Earth for 2 weeks.
If you go to the right sites you won’t get any malicious code. Stop spreading corpo propaganda.
it isn’t propaganda.
it’s been a while since I’ve used windows, but I remember having to give administrator privileges to software installers, whether they are from legitimate vendors or from ripping groups with modified code
Thats a windows thing so it can put files in “protected” folders like program files
What’s with this anyway? A remnant from the single-user days?
Some software installers still ask if I want to install for all users, which require elevated permissions, or only for me, which don’t. In that last option it will not prompt for elevated permissions as it will use one of my user’s folders which I have already all permissions for, obviously.
It’s a security measure that’s half assed. People are so used to it they just click allow but don’t actually look at the prompt anymore. Like I see a lot of people do with cookies on websites.
There is nuance here. Not every crack is malicious but you have to assume they all are because some of them are. Trusting a source is irrelevant. Many security products will falsely tag cracked software as dangerous just because it’s cracked, not because it found a specific bit of nasty code, and this feeds the idea that you can’t believe when people tell you cracked software is unsafe. But there are many truly bad cracks out there. When in doubt, don’t trust it.
And you should always doubt free shit.
Same is true of any software these days, not just cracks…
This is true. Even projects with good reputations get caught up in shit like the XZ back door in Linux.
If you haven’t read up on that fiasco, you really should look into it. It got way too far before being caught all because people suck and ruin things for others.
Over wine?
They added spyware to it.
Here is excerpt from the tos, shared by user in steam reviews of the game.
important Info in Terms of Service:
• Mods are a bannable offense • Display of Cheats/Exploits is bannable • Forced arbitration clause and a waiver of class action and jury trial rights for all users residing in the United States and any other territory other than Australia, Switzerland, The United Kingdom, or The Territories of The European Economic Area • You can be banned for using a VPN while connecting to online servers • Cannot access game content on a Virtual PC
Collected Data Types: • Identifiers / Contact Information: Name, user name, gamertag, postal and email address, phone number, unique IDs, mobile device ID, platform ID, gaming service ID, advertising ID (IDFA, Android ID) and IP address • Protected Characteristics: Age and gender • Commercial Information: Purchase and usage history and preferences, including gameplay information • Billing Information: Payment information (credit / debit card information) and shipping address • Internet / Electronic Activity: Web / app browsing and gameplay information related to the Services; information about your online interaction(s) with the Services or our advertising; and details about the games and platforms you use and other information related to installed applications • Device and Usage Data: Device type, software and hardware details, language settings, browser type and version, operating system, and information about how users use and interact with the Services (e.g., content viewed, pages visited, clicks, scrolls) • Profile Inferences: Inferences made from your information and web activity to help create a personalized profile so we can identify goods and services that may be of interest • Audio / Visual Information: Account photos, images, and avatars, audio information via chat features and functionality, and gameplay recordings and video footage (such as when you participate in playtesting) • Sensitive Information: Precise location information (if you allow the Services to collect your location), account credentials (user name and password), and contents of communications via chat features and functionality.
I wouldnt touch anything this company has produced.
They added spyware to it.
No, they didn’t.
Just because something sounds outrageous, doesn’t mean it is true.
Borderlands 2 hasn’t been updated since 2022:
Borderlands - Last updated: 3 August 2016 Borderlands 2 - Last updated: 4 August 2022 Borderlands 3 - Last updated: 8 August 2024
No Borderlands titles include anti-cheat: https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=borderlands
Here is another person, 7 years ago trying the exact same outrage-based engagement farming strategy of linking a TOS update and implying a nefarious intent: https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8naopt/take_two_a_spyware_apocalypse/ It’s exactly the same “Take two is spying on you!!!” content and yet, none of the Borderlands games have added spyware and none have added kernel anti-cheat.
Also, if you read the 2018 and 2025 TOS you will notice notice that the information that they collect in the 2025 TOS ( https://www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/ ) is exactly the same as it was in 2018.
TL;DR - Just because you read it on the Internet, doesn’t mean it is true.
I sometimes wonder what I casually believe because I read it while scrolling for something interesting. I don’t have the time or inclination to fact check every single detail I come across.
Totally. And then these rebuttals are time consuming to fact check too.
I’m sure I believe a lot of nonsense from reading the Internet.
That’s okay, we’re just human. The problem is when people try to ‘inform’ people of things that they ‘know’ from reading social media. That’s how these situations are created, so many people believe this because so many other people believe it and then repeat it as fact without themselves ever checking.
It’s like a feedback loop of ignorance, caused entirely by people who care more about getting social credit for talking and less about saying things that are true.
Interesting. So the terms of service have not changed, and yet people are saying that they did. I wonder if there are criticisms that are still valid. For example, the terms of service that you linked:
- do not let me use a VPN (¶6.4)
- do not let me use glitches (¶6.4)
- do not let me own the copy of the game that I bought, but instead give me a limited license to it (¶2.1-2.2)
- do not inform you about future updates to their terms of service (¶10.2)
- force me to enter arbitration and do not let me be part of a class action lawsuit or have a trial by jury (¶17.5)
- link to their privacy policy, which:
- does not let me opt out of having my data bought, merged, and sold through ad networks or data brokers (§ Categories of Information Collected, § How We Use Information and Our Legal Grounds, § Sources of Information We Collect, and § When We Share Information ¶ 5— all sources combined)
- does not attempt to deliberately minimize data collection to protect user data (with the only exception of children’s data, their purposes are extremely vague § How We Use Information and Our Legal Grounds, they do not anonymize data, and they broadly do not make the attempt to do so— I cannot provide a citation because there is no attempt to do this in their privacy policy)
- does not specify the purposes of gathering and using information about any installed application on my device (§ Categories of Information Collected)
- does not let me opt-out of data collection categories for specific purposes (cannot give a direct citation because they simply do not do it; instead, they wrote vague types of information they collect —such as “details about… other information related to installed applications” in § Categories of Information Collected, as well as vague purposes in § How We Use Information)
So, coming back to the original claim you were debunking:
They added spyware to it.
Your response was
No, they didn’t.
And after reading their terms of service and privacy policy, I agree with you. If it is true that they haven’t changed their terms of service, then they didn’t add it. Instead, it was always there. They have always said that they gather “details about… other information related to installed applications” on my device for purposes that can include merging and selling my data to data brokers and ad networks.
The language about collecting and using data have been in TOSs for basically every online service since the early '00s.
I’m not saying that this is okay. The data that these services collect, which we’ve given them unlimited rights to, has only become more valuable and the incentives for these companies are always for them to gather more data about you.
You can use archive.org if you want to look at older policies from the same company. But, if you pull up any other game with an online component you will see that they all are essentially “Don’t cheat our services or hide your identity, We’re going to collect your data and use it how we want, and you have to enter into binding arbitration” with various levels of detail and verbosity.
That. The content of the screenshot you posted. That is what’s going on.
Pirates are winning over my empathy.
They’ve been my best friend for years
Piracy never gave me up, never let me down
They would never turn around and desert me
Might maroon me for fucking up the FOSS though.
