- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
- games@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
- games@lemmy.world
New OLED screen. New APU. And lots of small hardware improvements.
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Hahaha, they kept trying to convince people again and again that there will NOT be a hardware refresh any time soon. That was only a few months ago.
They were careful with how they phrased it, leaving the possibility of a refresh without a performance uplift still on the table (as speculated by media). It looks like the OLED model’s core performance will be only marginally better due to faster RAM, but that the APU itself is the same thing with a process node shrink (which improves efficiency a little).
See also: PCGamer article about an OLED version. They didn’t say “no”, and (just like with the previously linked article), media again speculated about a refresh happening.
It looks like they were consistent with what they were talking about with how it wasn’t simple to just drop in a new screen and leave everything else as-is, and used that opportunity to upgrade basically everything a little bit while they were tinkering with the screen upgrade.
The effiency part becomes a larger feature if it’s a mobile device…
Sure, but not much of that battery improvement is coming from migrating the APU’s process node. Moving from TSMC’s 7nm process to their 6nm process is only an incremental improvement; a “half-node” shrink rather than a full-node shrink like going from their 7nm to their 5nm.
The biggest battery improvement is (almost definitely) from having a 25% larger battery (40Whr -> 50Whr), with the APU and screen changes providing individually-smaller battery life improvements than that. Hence the APU change improving efficiency “a little”.
Well yeah, otherwise it will end up like Atari. No sales for the first one because everyone is waiting for the next one.
It’s smart. Also, developers have a solid benchmark to set their games to. Console has long had the benefit of a stable hardware set over the course of many years, which makes it easier to develop to the broadest possible market. Skipping incremental APU updates has a benefit of keeping a longer benchmark for game developers hoping to boost sales by targeting the market with handhelds. Valve was pretty clear in their communication in this regard, which is great.
I received my deck yesterday 😭
Oof. I had mine about 6 weeks but that stings lol
That’s not what happened at all. They said they would not be releasing a higher performance version anytime soon. This is just a refresh. Like a Steam Deck 1.8
Yeah I was burned and I’m kinda salty about it.
Just a few tips for people:
I got a 512 LCD at launch prices. I have zero regrets. It is awesome when I go on travel but also great for just hanging out around the house. And while the price is considerably higher than a switch (less so if you go for the entry level pricing), you save a LOT on games since Nintendo Pricing tends to translate to third parties over there too. But you obviously know you.
Will probably “trade in” my current model some time next year for the 512 OLED. 1 TB is tempting, but I have a desktop too. So installing and uninstalling games are almost all network transfers that go really fast because I generally am also playing those games on my desktop. Or even just keeping them installed there because I have the extra storage.
As for trading in: Be INCREDIBLY wary of using ebay. Ebay has incredibly good buyer protections at the cost of almost zero seller protections. If someone receives it and then says “Didn’t arrive, go fuck yourself” they get their money back and ebay/paypal will basically tell you to take it up with local police… who won’t do shit because ACAB. So stick to local exchanges (and follow all best practices for that) or just keep an eye out for the inevitable amazon or best buy trade in programs. You’ll get less, but also will have almost zero stress.
Not really true. Just cover your ass with paper.
Had a buyer try to get away with cd-laser not working but I explicitly wrote that in the description (and not in a tiny font). So at the end I won.It was about 50€…
That has nothing to do with a buyer claiming they never received the item or even just the correct item. Very hard to prove in eBay’s system.
Depends on the region the seller/buyer is in.
Tracked parcels for a starter. If it gets stolen by the shipment conoany or porch pirates that’s a whole other story.
I mean the dude can claim the package contained a brick instead of the device…
Great. Can you fucking release it in Australia now? Fuck Valve and its support here.
Yeah ikr. Feels like they’re still pissed at us for our ACCC taking them to task for not offering refunds here
Meanwhile Gaben said he fell in love with New Zealand while he was stranded there during the pandemic. Shame he couldn’t confuse the two.
Is the steam deck sold in NZ?
Nope
no official Steam Deck available on Brazil too :/
Got myself a steamdeck in russia via aunty from US. Probably best thing to play some games i always wanted to play but was lazy to invest time
Wouldn’t they need to build it in Brazil, otherwise the tarifs would make it prohibitively expensive?
Making it here to dodge some tariffs could be as simple as importing the boxes and handhelds and doing the boxing locally. That’s what Sony used to do.
Oh nice! They should definitely do that lol
Ok, this has me hyped because it also implies further iterations.
At not wildly inflating costs. I love my deck, so I can’t wait to see the next iteration :).
Jup, love that the price is not just not being increased with upgraded specs, the remaining stock of the old Steam Deck variants is actually being significantly discounted.
Steam Deck is 1.5 years old and im excited for a new iteration!
It’s closer to 2 years old.
Definitely, every other piece of Valve hardware has been one and done. I figured valve would cut the Steam Deck since other companies have entered the market.
I think they will not do a new processor for another year or so. They said it is years away.
With Snapdragon announcing their M2 like arm processor for desktop, I wonder if Steamdeck and these handhelds will start to switch to ARM?
There is already work being done on x86 to arm translation for Linux.
While Linux runs fine on ARM like no games do and what I have seen from the Apple ARM laptops playing X86 games isn’t quite close to being there and the Steam Deck is made with gaming in mind so it doesn’t make much sense IMHO. Plus the added complexity of 2 translation layers and the potential issues different games will have there.
Check out box86. There are videos of people running various games with it.
I posted a link in this thread of someone playing world of Warcraft on a pi 4.
I’m not saying that it’s ready to go today, but in a few years it will be great. Especially if valve develops for it the way they did it it proton.
I agree that translation layers will slow things down, but I don’t think it will be too terribly slow especially as more powerful chips come out.
I’m sure it can run games but it took like half a decade for Proton to be a seemless experience for the majority of games and having 2 translation layers on top of each other sounds like it could take even longer to be on the level Proton already is. Plus there’s the added chance for instability of newly released games. The efficiency from ARM seems like a very minor advantage when looking at those downsides.
Both of your downsides are just things you think. Let’s wait a few years and see what the software can do.
There is a video somewhere of someone using it to play Skyrim on an old android. I don’t think it’s a bad as you believe it to be.
Both WoW and Skyrim are over a decade old, I’m more worried about newly released games but yea, of course those issues are what I think, I’m not clearvoyent. I have seen the x86 emulation on apple’s ARM for modern games and I’m basing my reluctance on that but of course I can’t know for sure, I’m just saying the efficiency is probably not worth it.
The same thing could be said about games in the early days of wine and proton. Now most thing run without any trouble.
There is already work being done on x86 to arm translation for Linux.
Linux runs on ARM though?
Linux does, but the question is if the proton layer optimization holds up for ARM processors as well.
Please announce a trade in program, Valve. Don’t make me use eBay cause I’m not sure it’s worth the hassle at that point.
Try to sell locally
Like put a sign in my front yard or what
Craigslist, Facebook marketplace, gumtree, OfferUp, or whatever the local buy/sell website is
I’m guessing sell to friends or sell through Facebook Marketplace?
For real. I bought recently and I love it but would’ve absolutely waited had they not promised there wouldn’t be a refresh around the corner. Kinda fumed, Valve thought you were my choom.
I think the real question here is, what will the exhaust vent smell like? Have they improved on the aroma?
How can you improve perfection?
I’m not the only one!
Stop it Valve, I can only become so erect
Soooo I was looking into buying a steam deck… Guess that’s great news
It is. It’s a significant upgrade for no price increase.
And if you don’t want to get the best model, the old LCD models have crazy discounts right now.
Only true complaint I might have is that it’s actually fairly heavy and your arms will get tired after playing for too long, especially if you compare it to something like a Switch, but otherwise, I love my Deck, it’s been great. I’ve not had much trouble with most games I throw at it and even moved over my emulation game library on to there. It’s like the holy grail of gaming.
Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve found the opposite. Maybe it’s the ergonomics, but despite the weight I’ve found myself playing the Steam Deck for far longer than I ever could play my Switch before it gets uncomfortable.
I have to rest it on a pillow if I go for too long while playing in handheld mode. We’ve actually been using it alot more docked to our TV now, so it’s really not even an issue in that setup, it’s only when you’re holding the thing itself. Going back and picking up a Switch feels surreal now though, almost like it’s too light or it would break easily.
I’ve never used any other modern handheld but the switch still feels like it could snap in half at any moment.
The new one is lighter!
669g -> 640g
Hmm guess it’s not that much difference then. Probably won’t be too noticeable unless you’re gaming for a long time. But the weight has never bothered me, personally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfoLRmKwnSI
The 90 Hz display is apparently still not VRR
So went from “I NEED THIS” to “I really shouldn’t buy it but probably will upgrade during the first sale”
Better battery life, faster wifi and brighter display is definitely enough for me! Though I will have to be able to sell my original one first
Oh, I am almost definitely buying this some time next year. The battery life is nice for occasional use, but generally I am not doing marathon sessions anymore.
But the big thing that is getting me excited is the improved thermals. When I play something that is poorly optimized or otherwise start pushing it, I very much am reminded that I am using a “gaming laptop” and all the heat rashes that entails.
Also: If the translucent black+orange were at the 512 GB range, I would probably still make a poor decision next week. More storage is always nice, but I have had zero issues with my current 512 GB drive. Spent the past year or so in that “When my sticks fail or something otherwise goes bad, I’ll crack it open. Swap out to hall effects and get the biggest nvme I can fit in there” state
I am telling myself I’ll wait for a discount. But what I totally expect to happen is I realize the cutting board I am planning to treat myself to next year comes out a lot cheaper than I am budgeting for and…
Not to help you make “bad” decisions, but this is an amazing cutting board that punches far past its cost. Its been America’s test kitchen #1 recommended for years, and I can confirm it’s excellent.
Thanks. But by “cutting board” I am more or less saying “go full sicko on my counter space to the point that this might count as a small scope remodel”.
You’re not driving the display at 90fps, so a 90 fps container for 30-45 fps content is actually not bad at all, and it should feel pretty smooth even with minor fps drops.
People think VRR is magic sometimes, but it doesn’t work well with all types of content. For handheld you’re often going to be driving at low fps a high refresh rate can be more relevant sometimes. VRR on top of everything else would be nice, but it’s definitely not a must.
Oh. I don’t want to really go down that rabbit hole, but I think the 90 hz refresh rate is completely unnecessary considering the use case of the steam deck. Likely just a function of the oled.
And I do think setting a target refresh rate is probably better in the long run. It encourages people to optimize their performance settings and provides a target.
But also? Fluctuations and “running at the limits of your system” are where VRR IS magic. You never have to worry about artifacts that occur from being on the wrong multiple (especially with the math for why 40 Hz is better than 30 AND 45 for a 60 Hz display…). And that is largely where the Deck lives.
I don’t think VRR is essential for the Steam Deck. But I do think it is a “no brainer” that I assume is only not there because of how the (kind of ridiculously) low resolution OLEDs were sourced.
And tinfoil hat mode: It also isn’t something that really benefits from reviews. DF might touch on it, but the vast majority of outlets will intentionally set up benchmarks for a stable frame rate and… the Steam Deck is going to continue to be the baseline for all those comparisons. So showing off how good it looks when it is bouncing between 20 and 50 FPS just isn’t going to be something that shows up in a GN video.
I don’t know what VRR windows you get on handheld displays these days, but at 30fps it shouldn’t be super useful compared to vsynced 90Hz. 90 is 11ms intervals for your next frame, and if you’re pushing the hardware at ~30fps you may have bigger swings between frames in VRR (e.g. you could have 8ms between two frames and 28ms between the next two), which still reads as stutter, with or without VRR.
So it’s not as much of a no-brainer as you may think. That’s basically the same reason Lenovo insiders gave for why the 1600p 144Hz panel in the Lenovo Legion GO is also not VRR. In that case it makes a bit more sense because that’s just 7ms between refreshes, so you may genuinely struggle telling the difference between that and VRR if you’re rendering less than 60fps.
I think Digital Foundry does a lot of good advocacy and educational content, but sometimes they get hung up on pet peeves and give people the wrong impression about which buzzwords are important on which contexts.
Of course Lenovo are going to have marketing for why them saving money is actually better for the consumer. That is just how marketing works. If Valve were at all competent at it, they would be doing the same.
VRR doesn’t stop stutter. But it helps a lot when you have those gradual fluctuations. Think “If I look up, my FPS drops by 20%”. At which point you no loner have to worry at all about multiples to avoid screen tearing or all of that annoying stuff. All of which is REALLY nice when you are at the limits of your system. Whether that is pushing 100-144 FPS or 20-40 FPS. It won’t make it look like it is running perfectly, but it very much helps a lot and there is a reason that VRR is one of those “most noticeable hardware improvements” you can get.
And can we please skip out on the “Oh, people just don’t notice improved graphics and refresh rates anyway” nonsense? I realize the Steam Deck is a handheld, but this isn’t a Nintendo Switch thread.
FWIW, LTT seems to have asked about VRR and they hypothesize, based on the answer, that they’re sourcing from the same place as Nintendo and that is limiting the VRR option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCVXqoVi6RE
But my point stands in that you’re thinking about the target spec of the display, not the games. There IS a difference between 20-40 and 100-144 fps. First, because it’s a lot harder to keep a steady rate at 7ms frame budgets and second because the sense of stability doesn’t have the same demands.
And yes, it’s a perceptual thing. Some people will be more sensitive than others, but I would feel comfortable showing a 28-30 fps clip to people on a 144Hz vsync and a VRR display and asking them to spot which is which. Simply put the gaps in miliseconds between those two things are going to be too similar to tell apart. I know because I’ve tried. I have 100, 120, 144 and 165 fps displays, both VRR and vsynced. I’ve messed around with this for a long time for fun and profit.
I have no question that VRR would be a slight improvement, but I’m also not surprised that at these levels of speed and size both Lenovo and Valve decided that it wasn’t worth to chase VRR compared to the high refresh alternative. That gels with my own experience.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=uCVXqoVi6RE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
deleted by creator
That is literally FOMO.
You are “missing out” on nothing and technology gets better every couple months at this rate. I don’t want to put myself at the mercy of ASUS for support, but their handheld is REALLY nice. Similarly, Aya and GPD have been doing this for the better part of a decade and are largely what the Steam Deck was based on. And GPD in particular have some very interesting form factors
Most of the devices out there are geared toward Windows (which plays with Gamepass). In large part because MS have put a lot of effort into touchpad/touchscreen support whereas Linux is… gonna Linux. But there are increasing third party efforts to make linux distros and Valve seem to want to push for SteamOS as a distro (and I think Aya have said they want to use it?).
At the end of the day: if the price is right and you think you’ll use it, get it. If not? Fuck it. Buy something else.
The benefit of the 90hz is that it raises the bar for refresh rate/2 gameplay for latency/performamce requirement.
40hz alone is half of the input latency difference between 30 and 60 fps, and is much more realistic to hit performance numbers for. Some people run it at 40hz for optimized battery/performamce/latency ratio. Setting it to 45 now makes it every frame is evenly doubled. That along with the die shrink/10W/Hr/chemistry changes will allow the battery to last a lot longer on the go, at least on paper
That would make more sense if you couldn’t set the old LCD panel to 45 already. There’s still an advantage to doubling each frame, especially in reducing latency on frame drops, but I don’t think there are any refresh targets under 60 the old panel couldn’t match after they introduced the manual refresh control feature.
The battery life seems much, much better, though. There are already some preview benchmarks that say at minimum TDP you can get to double digit hours on this thing. That’s nuts for a x64 handheld device.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=WfoLRmKwnSI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Looks this is a refresh for those who were on the edge of buying one or those who really love OLED.
Personally, I would’ve instantly sold mine and upgraded if these also had VRR. Hopefully the proper next generation of these devices comes with it.
Ooff, that’s a bummer it doesn’t come with VRR. Linux has no issue supporting it with amd cards in general so I assume it’s the screen.
Thinking about finally getting one. The 512GB OLED does look very good…
I also wonder if they’re ever going to have a non-handheld console (essentially a revamped Steam Machine). I’ve heard a bunch about people building PCs and running Holo ISO on there as a console replacement, might make sense to have an official solution from Valve.
steam deck can already be used as a non-handheld machine.
and if you actually need one, get a pc.There is no PC as capable as the Steam Deck at the same price point.
You could very easily build a significantly more powerful PC with significantly less money, and indeed others have done so already.
you can build a more powerful pc for less, i built a machine with new components during the gpu shortage and it’s still faster. (1050ti, 1600af)
I do not think they will. But they said they will release steamOS for install on your own machine. It just runs Linux, so it should work on most desktop hardware without any problems.
Wonder if it would be possible to retrofit the new parts into an existing SteamDeck
I read in a couple spots earlier that the new battery is physically too big and the OLED panel won’t transfer either.
Ah that’s unfortunate if true. Ah well I’m happy with my Steam Deck as is. I’m also sure that some YouTubers will find a way anyway 😂
Damn, very much tempted to sell mine and buy this OLED version; the LCD screen is pretty much the only feature I dislike.
What would be a fair price to sell a used 256gb version with no damage?
I just bought a refurb 256 for ~$350 out the door ($319 sticker) so I imagine you could get a bite in the high, mid-200’s although you’d probably also be cross-shopped against the 64 GB refurb (that’s mostly out of stock though)
I waited just under a year for my preorder.
Yes, I will buy the OLED one, and pass the original to my son.
This is a really nice mid-gen refresh, IMO. It drives the entry point prices down (when was the last time you saw THAT in tech?) and it makes some really nice improvements to the newer SKUs.
I don’t think it’s a must-buy if you already own one, but if I was still using a Deck as a daily driver I would certainly consider it. The idea of a 10 hour battery on a handheld PC is super appealing for me, considering how often I’m playing stuff at 5W.
I think these prices are the same as the original release. Unless you mean entry point as in buying used.
They are selling the SKUs they’re discontinuing at a discount, so the very lowest end at the moment is a little bit down.
But in general, the 256Gb model got a spec bump without taking a price bump. That is very, very rare these days.
Oh you’re right! Yeah you could either look at it as a price drop or a storage bump. The 256 GB non-OLED LCD is only $400 now. And there’s nothing smaller than 512 GB on the OLED.
