Yeah, which is why it’s the reasonably wealthy people who have cars and not bikes. But that includes almost everyone in developed countries.
E-bikes are kind of a red herring here anyway; there’s little practical use-case for them that isn’t already covered by unpowered bicycles unless you live somewhere very hilly. (Even in moderately hilly places you get used to hills quite quickly). It’s not unreasonable to do a shopping run on a bike as long as the shop isn’t far away… But if it is, an e-bike won’t help you get there in a reasonable length of time.
E-bikes are kind of a red herring here anyway; there’s little practical use-case for them that isn’t already covered by unpowered bicycles unless you live somewhere very hilly.
Even in a place that isn’t very hilly, an e-bike could make the difference between arriving to work sweaty or not, which can easily mean the difference between biking or not. The extra help also expands the available user base to those who are less fit, and expands the range of what is doable for any given person. And, again, I want to emphasize the sweat difference, which also ties back into range (how far can you bike on a regular bike versus an e-bike without breaking a sweat?)
Exactly. I rode an ebike one summer to commute to an internship. The sweat factor alone meant I never would have done that by regular bike, as I would’ve arrived at the office sweating like a pig.
The sweat factor alone is what allowed me to use the loaned ebike as part of a journey to a wedding. Had changing facilities en route but not shower facilities…
When I biked to work I never arrived sweaty. Cycling allows you to travel faster than walking for the same effort, so you have better evaporative cooling (i.e. your sweat works better, before it soaks into your clothes) so this line always seemed weird to me - how far can you walk without breaking a sweat? Indefinitely, most of the year.
We’re generally assuming that walking is impractically far for the trips in question. It’s quite obvious that you can bike faster and further on an e-bike without breaking a sweat than you can on a regular bike.
I brought up walking only because I don’t get sweaty walking - it doesn’t have to be practical to commute that way. If you can go for a 6 hour hike without getting sweaty, you can bike to work for substantially less than 6 hours without getting sweaty, right?
If you can go for a 6 hour hike without getting sweaty
No, I don’t think most people in most climates can, actually.
you can bike to work for substantially less than 6 hours without getting sweaty, right?
Do your sweat glands just not work like most people? You can probably bike very slowly on level ground without breaking a sweat. The faster you go and the warmer or more humid it is, the more likely you are to sweat. E-bikes move that threshold significantly. Every person is a little different, of course, but it moves the sweat threshold for everyone.
I live in a relatively cool climate but it gets to a high relatively humidity. I don’t think it has anything to do with my sweat glands - if it were then I would overheat easily because I wouldn’t be sweating enough, right?
It’s bizarre to me that you think most people in most climates can’t walk indefinitely without sweating - walking shouldn’t be an exertion unless you’re climbing a steep hill or are seriously unfit. Sure, in a hot climate in summer, but there’s a lot of the world which is not that.
I do cycle pretty slowly (about 10mph) so if your journey is onerous at that speed but doable at the speed limit of an e-bike than that would make a difference of course. Still, I think people get too fixated on cycling fast in some countries where cycling isn’t the norm because cycling is seen more as a sport than as transport.
E-bikes are kind of a red herring here anyway; there’s little practical use-case for them that isn’t already covered by unpowered bicycles unless you live somewhere very hilly. (Even in moderately hilly places you get used to hills quite quickly).
I got a cargo e-bike specifically because I got tired of hauling two kids up hills in a trailer pulled by my regular bike.
E-bikes make things less daunting for certain people to get on a bike for their commute. Anything that gets us there is a win in my book.
My city has <5% bike usage for commutes. It was dropping from a high of around 8% prior to the pandemic. Post-pandemic, work from home is now at around 25% while bike usage is still low. These numbers are pretty typical of cities in the US. If we could get bike usage to 20% while maintaining work from home numbers, that would be transformative. It’s basically what is naively expected to happen when you add a lane of traffic, except without (hopefully) the induced demand problems. Which you can avoid by adding a full sized bike path with physical dividers for all those new bicyclists to use.
Basically, if you can get to 20%, the next 20% becomes much easier, and at that point, combined with work from home, you’re down to the cars that actually need to be there for one reason or another (deliveries, disabled people, etc.)
You know, I thought that but now that I’ve been riding an e-bike for about 3 months I completely disagree.
You can write about three times further on an e-bike than you can on a regular bicycle and still be 100% fine at your destination. It’s basically a range extender for a bike.
But it also makes you go faster and makes you less tired, and you can conquer any hill no problem at a pretty good rate of speed. Not to mention that I can carry about 200 lb of cargo on my bike with no issue at all.
There are hills in my city that I cannot bicycle up. I would have to walk my bike. Find my e-bike, I can go uphill with 200 lb of cargo on the back no problem.
Yeah, which is why it’s the reasonably wealthy people who have cars and not bikes. But that includes almost everyone in developed countries.
E-bikes are kind of a red herring here anyway; there’s little practical use-case for them that isn’t already covered by unpowered bicycles unless you live somewhere very hilly. (Even in moderately hilly places you get used to hills quite quickly). It’s not unreasonable to do a shopping run on a bike as long as the shop isn’t far away… But if it is, an e-bike won’t help you get there in a reasonable length of time.
Even in a place that isn’t very hilly, an e-bike could make the difference between arriving to work sweaty or not, which can easily mean the difference between biking or not. The extra help also expands the available user base to those who are less fit, and expands the range of what is doable for any given person. And, again, I want to emphasize the sweat difference, which also ties back into range (how far can you bike on a regular bike versus an e-bike without breaking a sweat?)
Exactly. I rode an ebike one summer to commute to an internship. The sweat factor alone meant I never would have done that by regular bike, as I would’ve arrived at the office sweating like a pig.
The sweat factor alone is what allowed me to use the loaned ebike as part of a journey to a wedding. Had changing facilities en route but not shower facilities…
range extension is huge
When I biked to work I never arrived sweaty. Cycling allows you to travel faster than walking for the same effort, so you have better evaporative cooling (i.e. your sweat works better, before it soaks into your clothes) so this line always seemed weird to me - how far can you walk without breaking a sweat? Indefinitely, most of the year.
We’re generally assuming that walking is impractically far for the trips in question. It’s quite obvious that you can bike faster and further on an e-bike without breaking a sweat than you can on a regular bike.
I brought up walking only because I don’t get sweaty walking - it doesn’t have to be practical to commute that way. If you can go for a 6 hour hike without getting sweaty, you can bike to work for substantially less than 6 hours without getting sweaty, right?
No, I don’t think most people in most climates can, actually.
Do your sweat glands just not work like most people? You can probably bike very slowly on level ground without breaking a sweat. The faster you go and the warmer or more humid it is, the more likely you are to sweat. E-bikes move that threshold significantly. Every person is a little different, of course, but it moves the sweat threshold for everyone.
I live in a relatively cool climate but it gets to a high relatively humidity. I don’t think it has anything to do with my sweat glands - if it were then I would overheat easily because I wouldn’t be sweating enough, right? It’s bizarre to me that you think most people in most climates can’t walk indefinitely without sweating - walking shouldn’t be an exertion unless you’re climbing a steep hill or are seriously unfit. Sure, in a hot climate in summer, but there’s a lot of the world which is not that.
I do cycle pretty slowly (about 10mph) so if your journey is onerous at that speed but doable at the speed limit of an e-bike than that would make a difference of course. Still, I think people get too fixated on cycling fast in some countries where cycling isn’t the norm because cycling is seen more as a sport than as transport.
I got a cargo e-bike specifically because I got tired of hauling two kids up hills in a trailer pulled by my regular bike.
E-bikes make things less daunting for certain people to get on a bike for their commute. Anything that gets us there is a win in my book.
My city has <5% bike usage for commutes. It was dropping from a high of around 8% prior to the pandemic. Post-pandemic, work from home is now at around 25% while bike usage is still low. These numbers are pretty typical of cities in the US. If we could get bike usage to 20% while maintaining work from home numbers, that would be transformative. It’s basically what is naively expected to happen when you add a lane of traffic, except without (hopefully) the induced demand problems. Which you can avoid by adding a full sized bike path with physical dividers for all those new bicyclists to use.
Basically, if you can get to 20%, the next 20% becomes much easier, and at that point, combined with work from home, you’re down to the cars that actually need to be there for one reason or another (deliveries, disabled people, etc.)
You know, I thought that but now that I’ve been riding an e-bike for about 3 months I completely disagree.
You can write about three times further on an e-bike than you can on a regular bicycle and still be 100% fine at your destination. It’s basically a range extender for a bike.
But it also makes you go faster and makes you less tired, and you can conquer any hill no problem at a pretty good rate of speed. Not to mention that I can carry about 200 lb of cargo on my bike with no issue at all.
There are hills in my city that I cannot bicycle up. I would have to walk my bike. Find my e-bike, I can go uphill with 200 lb of cargo on the back no problem.
commuting without breaking a sweat is a big plus