Should China have this ideological adherence to reclaiming Taiwan, and be ramping up for a deadly and horrible invasion for it? No.
Should the biggest industries on the planet and ultimately all technology users depend on the independence of a tiny island nation that has an unresolved civil war with an authoritarian superpower? Hell no.
But those aren’t the questions we have to answer. We have to answer insane questions like “what will happen if China tries to seize Taiwan?” When the questions are insane, the answers are never good.
It’s the same gloomy logic as MAD, isn’t it? The hope is that the threat is enough to make war unthinkable. The insane part is that you have to walk that tight rope indefinitely or the whole thing falls apart.
Well it’s a gloomy logic for Taiwan, who have to somberly weigh up the prospect of losing their sovereignty vs committing an act of mass genocide. For the comfortable westerners with no connection to the issue gleefully calling for it, it’s just a matter of genocidal blood lust.
I’m not calling for it at all. I want the issue to be resolved diplomatically. We can talk about that if you prefer, but you’ll have to start us off with some ideas.
Its what is left available to Taiwan if all else fails. They don’t have nukes, but they do have (probably) enough missiles to breach the shitty construction of the dam. This is no different than the MAD doctrine.
It’s MADdening that you believe that the US won’t be nuked for giving weapons to Taiwan and directing them to kill millions of people in mainland China. Taiwan doesn’t want to go to war with China and they’ve always wanted reunification. The US wants to divide and conquer China and should stop before it creates a nuclear catastrophe.
Lol ok. If Taiwan has always wanted reunification then why hasn’t it happened yet? Were they waiting for an invitation? This is bad Chinese astroturfing.
Lol Taiwan and China have both claimed to be the “real China” but Taiwan is just a small separatist holdover of a civil war that ended nearly 75 years ago. Since they can’t run the show, they’re trying to be a wedge for US imperialism in east Asia. The People of Taiwan are Chinese citizens and the US should stop encouraging them to go to war to destroy themselves and their country.
Quick thinking would easily conclude that admitting lost would also break the status quo. A treaty would have to be signed, and since the PRC would never give up trying to gain new territory, what good will it do to Taiwanese people who have no desire to join the PRC?
Petty is when your girlfriend keeps your favorite shirt after the breakup.
And get your facts straight. ROC came before PRC. PRC never ruled over Taiwan once. The “girlfriend” in your story here is PRC, not Taiwan.
There is no law of the universe which says that a civil war must end in “unification.”
It seems to me that the Taiwanese are moving on. Why can’t the mainland Chinese move on? Why do they let their former enemy still control themselves like this? Why do they let Taiwan hold this power over themselves? How can such a large, wealthy country of over a billion people be so obsessed with a small country of only twenty million?
Hey, how about you tell PRC to fuck off and not threaten war? You realize it’s been 75 years. That’s 2+ generations already, Taiwanese people no longer identify themselves as Chinese, and the ruling party now is not the same dictatorship that wants to reunite with China. No one wants war, but Taiwan does not want another dictatorship either.
Eh, I haven’t had an opportunity to ask, but I think they do identify as Chinese. Just not as citizens of PRC, because they are citizens of another sovereign state.
I think the reason the US is lying is because they believe that they can undermine China’s position. They want to damage the country in some way to maintain their status as the sole superpower, but it’s too late for that. China is entrenched as a leader in world industry and attempting to contain them is impossible.
I’d describe myself as unfortunately well-informed. More likely is that the people I’m arguing with are paid apologists/mis-educated by the mainstream media.
China is entrenched as a leader in world industry and attempting to contain them is impossible.
Oh. That’s delusional.
It’s funny how “second echelon” states’ enthusiasts are making the same mistakes in every century. From the German Empire to Soviet Union to China.
Scale is not the only thing that matters and China is not innovative. It’s functioning as a huge factory for the rest of the world, and making lots of money and influence in process, but for the world it can be replaced, while the world can’t be replaced for China.
Autarky is not possible for China. It could have had a chance at that 20-15 years ago, but it’s gone.
Especially with its demographic and political tendencies.
So China wants to be nuked by the US because of not backing down with their aggression in this case?
Some of the Chinese nukes would be shot down in such a course of events - there are systems like THAAD. AFAIK China doesn’t have anything similar, so the response strike is going to be more efficient.
There’s no rule or law preventing two Chinese states from existing on one planet. You pretending otherwise doesn’t change anything.
It’s absolutely insane and genocidal for you to wish for the drowning of millions of civilians.
Should China have this ideological adherence to reclaiming Taiwan, and be ramping up for a deadly and horrible invasion for it? No.
Should the biggest industries on the planet and ultimately all technology users depend on the independence of a tiny island nation that has an unresolved civil war with an authoritarian superpower? Hell no.
But those aren’t the questions we have to answer. We have to answer insane questions like “what will happen if China tries to seize Taiwan?” When the questions are insane, the answers are never good.
The answer still doesn’t have to be “deliberate and gleeful genocide.”
It’s the same gloomy logic as MAD, isn’t it? The hope is that the threat is enough to make war unthinkable. The insane part is that you have to walk that tight rope indefinitely or the whole thing falls apart.
Well it’s a gloomy logic for Taiwan, who have to somberly weigh up the prospect of losing their sovereignty vs committing an act of mass genocide. For the comfortable westerners with no connection to the issue gleefully calling for it, it’s just a matter of genocidal blood lust.
I’m not calling for it at all. I want the issue to be resolved diplomatically. We can talk about that if you prefer, but you’ll have to start us off with some ideas.
I never said you were…
Then China probably shouldn’t invade Taiwan, huh Spanky?
Its what is left available to Taiwan if all else fails. They don’t have nukes, but they do have (probably) enough missiles to breach the shitty construction of the dam. This is no different than the MAD doctrine.
It’s MADdening that you believe that the US won’t be nuked for giving weapons to Taiwan and directing them to kill millions of people in mainland China. Taiwan doesn’t want to go to war with China and they’ve always wanted reunification. The US wants to divide and conquer China and should stop before it creates a nuclear catastrophe.
Lol ok. If Taiwan has always wanted reunification then why hasn’t it happened yet? Were they waiting for an invitation? This is bad Chinese astroturfing.
Lol Taiwan and China have both claimed to be the “real China” but Taiwan is just a small separatist holdover of a civil war that ended nearly 75 years ago. Since they can’t run the show, they’re trying to be a wedge for US imperialism in east Asia. The People of Taiwan are Chinese citizens and the US should stop encouraging them to go to war to destroy themselves and their country.
How petty the mainland Chinese must be if they cannot move on from a small island after three quarters of a century.
Petty is when your girlfriend keeps your favorite shirt after the breakup.
Refusing to admit you lost a civil war 75 years ago and blowing up a major dam, killing 35 million people to stall unification is genocide.
Quick thinking would easily conclude that admitting lost would also break the status quo. A treaty would have to be signed, and since the PRC would never give up trying to gain new territory, what good will it do to Taiwanese people who have no desire to join the PRC?
And get your facts straight. ROC came before PRC. PRC never ruled over Taiwan once. The “girlfriend” in your story here is PRC, not Taiwan.
There is no law of the universe which says that a civil war must end in “unification.”
It seems to me that the Taiwanese are moving on. Why can’t the mainland Chinese move on? Why do they let their former enemy still control themselves like this? Why do they let Taiwan hold this power over themselves? How can such a large, wealthy country of over a billion people be so obsessed with a small country of only twenty million?
Hey, how about you tell PRC to fuck off and not threaten war? You realize it’s been 75 years. That’s 2+ generations already, Taiwanese people no longer identify themselves as Chinese, and the ruling party now is not the same dictatorship that wants to reunite with China. No one wants war, but Taiwan does not want another dictatorship either.
Eh, I haven’t had an opportunity to ask, but I think they do identify as Chinese. Just not as citizens of PRC, because they are citizens of another sovereign state.
Do you believe the US has any hope of conquering China?
None, and trying will end in defeat and possibly nuclear war.
Ok, then why continue lying about it and pretending China has to act against Taiwan to prevent it?
I think the reason the US is lying is because they believe that they can undermine China’s position. They want to damage the country in some way to maintain their status as the sole superpower, but it’s too late for that. China is entrenched as a leader in world industry and attempting to contain them is impossible.
I’m getting convinced you’re a parody account roleplaying as a paid apologist
I’d describe myself as unfortunately well-informed. More likely is that the people I’m arguing with are paid apologists/mis-educated by the mainstream media.
Oh. That’s delusional.
It’s funny how “second echelon” states’ enthusiasts are making the same mistakes in every century. From the German Empire to Soviet Union to China.
Scale is not the only thing that matters and China is not innovative. It’s functioning as a huge factory for the rest of the world, and making lots of money and influence in process, but for the world it can be replaced, while the world can’t be replaced for China.
Autarky is not possible for China. It could have had a chance at that 20-15 years ago, but it’s gone.
Especially with its demographic and political tendencies.
So China wants to be nuked by the US because of not backing down with their aggression in this case?
Some of the Chinese nukes would be shot down in such a course of events - there are systems like THAAD. AFAIK China doesn’t have anything similar, so the response strike is going to be more efficient.
There’s no rule or law preventing two Chinese states from existing on one planet. You pretending otherwise doesn’t change anything.
Wish? The fact you have to put words in my mouth to attempt to form an argument says more about you than me.