• bioemerl@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I’ll take our current system over the Soviet one every day of the week. Not starving and not living under an evil dictatorship beats an unfair court system.

      • bioemerl@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        The inefficiencies created by the Soviet system will lead to yet another round of famine and other problems that will make those stats in your infographic look cute.

        Go try your perfect world economic system propaganda on someone else who is dumb enough to buy it.

        • Tak@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          “My guess at the future will make your facts about the now irrelevant because I’m smart”

            • Tak@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Dinosaurs existed in the past. Their policies resulted in no shelter from asteroids. Therefore we need all available effort to go towards asteroid protection now. Forget that hunger and famine only exists in the now because we let it to justify capitalism. We need to worry about what happened in the past.

              Above is obviously sarcasm

              Using your own rhetoric I could argue that the United States had famines in the past so therefore it will have them again.

              • bioemerl@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                Dinosaurs existed in the past. Their policies resulted in no shelter from asteroids.

                Wat.

                Using your own rhetoric I could argue that the United States had famines in the past so therefore it will have them again.

                Hah.

                You could, if there was a history of famines in America’s past. The closest we really got was the dust bowl, and that was never really a famine.

                Of course, the possibility is always open with global warming becoming a thing that we could experience some form of famine in the future. However, when it happens it’s almost certainly going to be because of global warming cannot because of asinine communist economic decision making that dis encourages people from producing any sort of surplus by imposing state quotas on them.

                Forget that hunger and famine only exists in the now because we let it to justify capitalism

                In the world? Hunger and famine largely exists because people live in regions with really corrupt governments and no way to produce food locally, it’s geopolitical more than economic and there really is no fixing it.

                In the United States?

                You guys have to use a chart that shows statistics on food insecurity instead of actual lack of access to food because lots of food programs exist and lots of people actually are able to get meals even when they are poor. Actual starvation is very rare in the United States, thanks to things like the snap programs.

                The United States has problems to fix, but we seriously have a bigger epidemic of obesity among the poor than starvation.

                • Tak@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Wat.

                  It’s really not hard to understand you’re not as prophetic as you think you are.

                  However, when it happens it’s almost certainly going to be because of global warming cannot because of asinine communist economic decision making that dis encourages people from producing any sort of surplus by imposing state quotas on them.

                  Gee I wonder what economic system is causing global warming.

                  In the world? Hunger and famine largely exists because people live in regions with really corrupt governments and no way to produce food locally, it’s geopolitical more than economic and there really is no fixing it.

                  The context was in the US. Why shift the goal post to where you can blame something other than the American oligarchy.

                  You guys have to use a chart that shows statistics on food insecurity instead of actual lack of access to food because lots of food programs exist and lots of people actually are able to get meals even when they are poor. Actual starvation is very rare in the United States, thanks to things like the snap programs.

                  Who is “you guys” you even say yourself that obesity is a problem and obesity is a result of food deserts and terrible food programs in the US that stem from subsidized corn.

                  You’re either trolling or unwilling to actually communicate on these topics at this point.

              • bioemerl@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                War resulted in famine my ass.

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930%E2%80%931933

                And famine is just the start. If you think any government is competent enough to handle the orchestration of a system is large and complicated as a modern economy you are hilariously mistaken.

                I wouldn’t even know where to start. Basically every single item in your house runs through some sort of supply chain that would get fucked up if we tried to manage them all through some central planned economy.

                • Raphael@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Same page:

                  Slaughter of livestock

                  During collectivization, the peasantry was required to relinquish their farm animals to government authorities. Many chose to slaughter their livestock rather than give them up to collective farms. In the first two months of 1930, kulaks killed millions of cattle, horses, pigs, sheep, and goats, with the meat and hides being consumed and bartered. In 1934, the 17th Congress of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) reported that 26.6 million head of cattle and 63.4 million sheep had been lost.[68] In response to the widespread slaughter, the Sovnarkom issued decrees to prosecute “the malicious slaughtering of livestock” (Russian: хищнический убой скота).[69]

                  Resistance

                  Thousands of Kazakhs violently resisted the collectivization campaign with weapons left over by the white army with 8 rebellions occurring in 1930 alone. [97] In the Mangyshlak Peninsula 15,000 rebels resisted between 1929 and 1931.

                  Also

                  Some kulaks responded by carrying out acts of sabotage such as killing livestock and destroying crops intended for consumption by factory workers

                  They fought against collectivization thinking something would happen. They unleashed a famine upon themselves.

                  EDIT: This part is so ridiculous I need to repeat it:

                  reported that 26.6 million head of cattle and 63.4 million sheep had been lost.

                  So much milk lost, could have fed so many people, you can bet there were millions of chickens too, millions of eggs that were never laid, kill the cattle, kill the natural cycle of reproduction, tonnes and tonnes of meat that were never born.

                  I couldn’t find in that wiki page the part where some reactionaries BURNED FARMS to oppose communism, I wonder why they starved.

                  • bioemerl@kbin.social
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                    1 year ago

                    You do a very good job cherry picking, but all of these things together couldn’t starve a nation.

                    At the end of the day what killed the Soviet Union was the fact that they.

                    1. Encted a policy of mass theft to take animals from the people who owned them.

                    2. Created a system or the people producing the food weren’t making shit and had no incentive to actually work.

                    3. Up to try to blame rich people instead of their own shitty system for causing the famine.