• assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Everyone wants peace for themselves and their allies. What’s important is how many people want peace for the other guy too.

    • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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      10 months ago

      Well, but what I’m saying is that (edit: calling it terrorism) saying it wasn’t legitimate is kind of wanting peace for the other guy too.

      I’d be surprised if 33% of Americans or Israelis thought that the invasion of Gaza was illegitimate. Maybe they would though, I honestly don’t know.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        It’s all terrorism, all the way down. Israel throws a volley, then Hamas throws a volley, and so on. It’s depressing.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Palestinians want to live peace with each other. Israelis are the ones that want to go full Nazi and exterminate all Palestinians because they believe they are the Ubermensch.

      The west bank being terrorized by ZioNazis is all the proof one needs.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        You shouldn’t take the actions of genocidal, colonizing settlers and generalize them to all Israelis. It’s completely incorrect to suggest that all Israelis want to exterminate the Palestinians. As small as they are, there are left wing groups that want to find reconciliation and cooperation. And plenty of youth have refused their compulsory service with the IDF.

        It also makes no sense for the Israelis to think they’re superior to the Palestinians – only half of Israelis trace their ancestry from European Jews. The other half have the same ancestry as the Palestinians. They’re all semites.

        You’re far too eager to condemn people by association, who may very well have the same beliefs as you. These are the same logical fallacies that lead to ubermensch beliefs in the first place.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          As small as they are, there are left wing groups that want to find reconciliation and cooperation. And plenty of youth have refused their compulsory service with the IDF.

          I highly respect people such as Gideon Levy and other speaking out against the atrocities and refusing military service. If all israelis were like that then this conflict would already be over. But most israelis are currently voting right wing governments in power. Most israelis even support the current genocide.

          There were even people killed by Hamas that were peace activists. Which is incredibly sad. But the fact remains that all those good people are completely outnumbered and despite their peaceful activism israel has moved more and more towards full on Nazism the last few year.

          It also makes no sense for the Israelis to think they’re superior to the Palestinians – only half of Israelis trace their ancestry from European Jews. The other half have the same ancestry as the Palestinians. They’re all semites.

          They believe Palestinians are Arabs not Semites.

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            I’m not disputing any of that. I’m just saying we shouldn’t tar Levy and the others with the same brush. And like you said, the people being killed by Hamas are not just the genocide supporters.

            Think about how this conflict is going to end. When we look at the most likely outcomes:

            • Status quo continues, and just kicks the can back down the road until one of the other outcomes

            • Israeli completely genocides Palestinians and colonizes Gaza and West Bank on their bodies. Some survive as refugees, but most of them die. Hamas is mostly destroyed, but its rich leaders in the UAE and similar countries drink champagne and live it up just fine.

            • Enough Israelis vote for a left wing regime that seeks reconciliation, and recognizes they have to move past the history of violence for it to end.

            Odds are, Israel is not going to be destroyed or ended. The best chance of peace relies on the Israelis who understand the power dynamic places the impetus on them to stop the violence. To that end, it’s unhelpful to blanket label all Israelis as genocide supporters. Because if that’s true, Palestine has no hope.

          • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Even if so though, this just perpetuates the problem. This is why the conflict won’t stop.

            Most of Group A thinks that most of Group B are supremacists, and condones the killing of B. The members of B who aren’t supremacists and are killed anyway by association see all of Group A as supremacists who want them dead, so they condone the killing of A, even those that disagree and don’t think that all of B are supremacists.

            This isn’t going to stop until people see each other as individuals. They’ll create justifications to kill each other until one of them ceases to exist. It falls on Israel to seek reconciliation, or this violence is just going to keep going.

            • من البحر إلى النهر@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              There were multiple peace offers by the Arabs, such as the Arab Peace Initiative 22 years ago. Israel has always rejected a two-state solution.

              Do you think the Irish should have given up on fighting for freedom?