Reading the comments from that article is a prime example of how a cult functions.
In reality this will have a 0,002% impact. Most phone users are tech-illiterate and have no idea how to use their devices. You expect these people to go to a different store? On Android you can have other app stores, why don’t you have? Because Play Store is default and all app developers want to be where most users are, not on a 3-4% user share store.
It will most likely be background noise in the first months and everyone will go back to the App Store. The only people that will use an alternate store will most likely be the same ones that use F-droid, so 0,002% of the users.
But hey, it’s better to scream how this whole thing is making their devices less secure, because Apple told them so.
It’s always about the minority. Just because something fits 99% should not mean this is the only thing in existence, when other ways do not disturb. And one not fulfilled minority there, one not fulfilled there and soon we realise that almost everyone fit in some unfulfilled minority that is not dealed with.
Many Android manufacturers actually have either their own store, or an app that acts as an interface to the Google Play Store. These are installed by default, and subtly pushed over the vanilla Play Store. So I’m guessing millions of users do end up using them.
I think that’s exactly the problem. The real user benefit will be very small, but in order to enable those changes, functionality will be implemented on everyone’s phones to support sideloading. In my eyes, this increseas the attack surface against iPhones. Time and time again alt stores have been used to distribute fake apps and malware on Android, and the victims are often those users who haven’t asked for sideloading and are unlikely to use it intentionally.
Yes, maybe this will enable an F-droid equivalent on iPhone and it will be great to have direct access to open-source apps. But is this niche addition worth potentially reducing the security of all iPhones? I’m not convinced.
The real user benefit will be very small
Time and time again alt stores have been used to distribute fake apps and malware on Android, and the victims are often those users who haven’t asked for sideloading and are unlikely to use it intentionally.
Can you offer any evidence to back up either of these claims?
On malware being distributed through alternate stores, yes. For example:
- https://www.zdnet.com/article/amazons-app-store-puts-millions-of-android-devices-at-risk/
- https://cybernews.com/news/over-9-million-android-devices-infected-with-new-trojan-from-huaweis-app-store/
- https://www.pcmag.com/news/study-reveals-googles-play-store-is-main-distributor-of-malicious-apps (Table VII, “alt-market” row)
The real user benefit will be very small
This is just my gut feeling. It is based on not knowing anyone IRL that has willingly installed an Android app from outside the Play Store, but actually knowing people that avoid it because of the potential security implications.
You have to remember that the vast majority of smartphone users are not power users, and not the people who hang out on these forums. While something may look attractive in small circles like these, there are many other factors to consider when targetting the entire userbase.
Your third link actually discredits your point. The Play store is the “main”/1st party app store for Android devices and the article says how it’s the biggest distributer of malware over 3rd party app stores
But here’s the thing - side loading, even on android, is an opt-in feature. The user has to actively go out of their way to sideload an app. Even if an app tries to do it behind your back, you must first enable its ability to do so.
Yes, this doesn’t exist when ADB is involved, but in that case you have to go out of your way to enable USB debugging (and be stupid enough to plug your phone into someone else’s computer). The vast majority of iPhones will never have sideloading enabled by their users. The EU isn’t grabbing their balls and saying that all users must have it enabled by default, otherwise they’d be going after Android too.
Sure, I get that. The issue is that as soon as you introduce the ability to install apps from outside the App Store, it becomes possible to trick unsuspecting users into clicking buttons they don’t understand. By designing a web page to look like an actual Apple page, a malicious party could convince users to “opt in” to outside sources, in a similar way in which phishing websites harvest users’ online banking credentials. Currently, this kind of attack is entirely impossible on iPhone.
Doesn’t this argument essentially boil down to “people are stupid and we should take away their freedoms to protect them from themselves”? I’m not going to say that most people would make use of being able to install 3rd party apps, or even that it won’t give malware more chances to get people. But people can get themselves hurt or compromise their electronic security in any number of ways taking away people’s choices until they can’t make bad decisions anymore just doesn’t seem worth it to me
Sure, but at that point we’re getting into the weeds of fake webpages, which really isn’t anything apple could control anyway. Nothing’s to say that if sideloading didn’t exist, that page wouldn’t just direct them to a form to fill out your banking information. All it does is change the method. Apple could simply maintain a hash database of files that are known as dangerous and package it into a built-in AV for iOS (like most OSes do)
Nothing’s also to say that the page wouldn’t just abuse one of the hundreds of vulnerabilities that currently exist in WebKit currently.
For your average user, they’re probably only visiting legit sites on that browser anyway. My grandparents both have Android phones and to my knowledge have never been “tricked” into installing an APK. I can probably say the same for the vast majority of people.
I believe the benefits outweigh the costs here. Apple loses their grip on the walled garden which is punishing for developers and makes Apple judge, jury and executionor on not only what apps can run on iOS, but also how much developers have to give up to Apple (they could up their cut to 90% at anytime and currently developers can’t do shit about it).
This would actually be a big step for many Android users wanting to try out another OS.
I know for myself that sideloading apps is a must for me on my phone, and if an iPhone could do that, it’s at least one step closer for consideration.
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on Apple you are forced to use an Apple ID
Not entirely true. For most functionality on Android, you also need to be signed in with Google, but you can de-google it. On Apple, it’s the same, but you can’t de-apple it. You can currently only use the App Store which needs an Apple ID, so you lose like 80% of the stuff you could use your phone for.
For most functionality on Android, you also need to be signed in with Google
Really? Funny, my Lineage devices have zero Google Crap and they work just fine. Phone, email, SMS, messengers (Telegram, XMPP, Wire, SimpleX, Signal), web works fine, I’m able to run my sync tools like Foldersync, Syncthing, Resilio, my calendar works, my shopping list app works and syncs to their servers just fine, I use 4 mapping apps two are offroad/hiking, same ones I used when it had google) my address book works, etc.
I have ~300 apps on my phone.
So what’s this “most functionality” thing that I apparently don’t know about?
That’s de-googling (which I specifically mentioned in my previous comment). I’m talking about the stock experience most people will have on Android. For that, you need a Google account.
An user not familiar with Android will just use the Play Store, and they’ll need to log in with Google.
Not really, you can just remove your Google Account after setting it up and things will stay working without issue.
You only really need a Google account to download apps from the Play store. But you can use sideloading and different stores for that.
But you can use sideloading and different stores for that.
That’s (part of) what I said. You can also remove your Apple ID after you downloaded some apps, but that doesn’t change the fact that you need one to do so.
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Wait so you don’t need an Apple ID for the App Store? Or did I interpret your comment wrong.
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You can sync photos with tools like Syncthing, but it’s not automatic because of how iOS stores photos.
This would actually be a big step for many Android users wanting to try out another OS.
That’s the biggest benefit, competition ripples back and forth across services and improves everything. One thing gets better, so other things have to get better, so everything gets better.
Knock-on effects are insanely good.
Nah. As an Android user, the only other OS’s I’m interested in are ones that further embrace the Linux ecosystem.
They’ll allow you to sideload, but there’s nothing in the law that states they have to let you sideload whatever you choose. Apple will find a way to appease the dumbasses in Europe while still protecting the overall security of their platform for the rest of their users
Everyone wants the iPhone to be like Android. If that were the case, there would be no compelling reason to choose iOS, other than superior hardware, but your average user doesn’t even really care about that.
Apple will find a way to appease the dumbasses in Europe
I imagine Tim Apple’s bottom is shinier than Bender’s from all that kissing. One often wonders why people keep drinking the Kool-Aid from such behemoths. Must be something in the water.
Y’all really need new material. This is just pathetic.
I’d beg to differ, this whole “leave Britney alone” shtick is really tiresome.
Please step on me harder Mr.Apple!
You’d probably enjoy it too much. 🤣
You’re the one championing for it champ.
I just tell it like it is, I don’t give a fuck if you agree with or not. 🤷🏻♂️
And I’m just telling it like it is too.
If you don’t like it stop whinging to me.
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but there’s nothing in the law that states they have to let you sideload whatever you choose
That’s pretty much exactly what the law does say.
The gatekeeper shall allow and technically enable the installation and effective use of third-party software applications or software application stores using, or interoperating with, its operating system and allow those software applications or software application stores to be accessed by means other than the relevant core platform services of that gatekeeper.
There’s a provision for not letting the user actively break the device, but that’s it. And it’s couched in terms like “if strictly necessary and proportionate” and “provided they are justified”, so it’s not something Apple can apply on a whim.
It doesn’t say anything about specific software. They have to allow you to use third party stores, they don’t have to allow you to download torrent apps so that you can pirate.
There was a time, on Android custom roms, if you had pirated apps installed, they were uninstalled automatically. I see something similar happening here.
It doesn’t say anything about specific software. They have to allow you to use third party stores, they don’t have to allow you to download torrent apps so that you can pirate.
Literally in the quote I posted…
The gatekeeper shall allow and technically enable the installation and effective use of third-party software applications or software application stores
If less options is the only selling point of iOS, then it is a shit OS.
there’s nothing in the law that states they have to let you sideload whatever you choose.
There is, actually. And there is much more, you also will be able to publish on the App Store without using Apple’s payment services for example.
EU lawmakers are slow, but not completely stupid.
I would rather have a “all users must have root access to their devices” or all software must be user replaceable integrated into the law. We let Apple do their own thing, but adventurous users could try installing android and such on the iPhone (similar to how the asahi project is making Linux on M series macs a reality)
As shown with Android, even if you have root it’s not enough, as it won’t let you indefinetly support the device when the firmware and drivers are still secret. Freedom of choice for whatever OS you like (meaning that any OS can make a port) would be safer and more liberating, I thing.
Also, to hell with Android, I want to install Linux on this thing and finally be able to backup all apps, configurations and files via simple “rsync” command or when the screen/touch/battery die install TV-centric OS to at least repurpose this expensive device as new smart TV box :).
Which is why I’m saying all software must be replaceable. If Apple can update firmware, so should the users be able to
Yeah, that’s not gonna happen. 😂
It may not, but that doesn’t stop me wanting it.
Every hacker and law enforcement agency in the world would love your user root access idea
I seriously doubt law enforcement agencies want that, or they would make it law.
Why are you simping so hard for corps 💀
Moves like this always assume that location equals citizenship. As an EU citizen living in North America, a move like this means that I would not get the remedy that Apple legally owes me (or would owe me if I owned an iOS device)
The main thing I’ve been sideloading on Android for a decade is a fan implementation of the Dominion card game called Androminion. It was trademark cease and desist removed from the Play Store a decade ago, but you can still get the apk on Github
There’s a couple other things. One big gap in both the Google and Apple stores is the complete absence of adult content. I’m amazed there’s not more of a clamour for adult apps among either userbase, given that most people don’t own a normal computer. Sideloading could plug that gap
Just change country/region. No location required. If you do it through iOS you might need a payment method, which you don’t need if you’re changing it on the web.
Apple doesn’t owe you anything. You wanna play fast and loose, move back to Europe, simple.
Somebody seems triggered.
He’s just a troll, or a shill. Don’t give him attention or he will feel important
That’s what actual Apple fanbois sound like though. I believe it’s a specific case of Stockholm Syndrome.
Excuse me. As an Apple fanboy, I’ve seen that both Apple fanboys and Apple haters are as worse as each other on average. Don’t fall prey to enemy mentality and think in absolutes from the worst examples you’ve seen.
I haven’t seen this for any other corp though.
No Windows user cheers for Microsoft when they publish record revenue figures. They know, they paid for it.
No Android user defends phone makers if the new model has nothing new but costs 10-20% more.But there isn’t a thread or article about Apple without some commenters defending them. Regardless of the shit they pull.
I’ve never seen anybody cheer for Apple revenue figures. It’s just a bunch of boring numbers that always go up, unless the company is brave enough to stand against investors. I’ve seen plenty of people defend Samsung for what they do, and in China I’ve seen the most obnoxious Huawei fanboys. Both of these companies have on average the same amount of new features each year as Apple does, and none of them persistently increases the price; the new model costs more now because they’ve cut last year’s models’ prices. To say that DadeMurphy is representative of most Apple fans is certainly an exaggeration.
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Kinda like how the kind of people that buy a Rolex because it’s expensive will scoff at Seiko owners. On the other hand, the kind of people that buy Rolex because they admire its mechanical movements is probably own a Seiko as well.
I absolutely do see people simp for Microsoft
E.g. when Microsoft was buying Bethesda and Activision, threads were full of people saying it was great, and those who said otherwise got a lot of hate for it.
I’ve seen people fanboying over Windows too
We see it with Tesla
We see it with Nvidia
Apple is the posterboy of megacorps that people simp for, but they are far from the only one
Doesn’t the App Store already have separate markets?
