A day after President Biden suggested there could be a deal as soon as Monday, a Hamas official indicated the group would not trade Israeli troops held hostage for Palestinians imprisoned for terrorism.
Israel is offering a temporary pause in exchange for all of the hostages while Netanyahu is saying that the invasion and resulting massacre in Rafah is still going to happen no matter what.
I don’t in any way condone the many atrocities of Hamas, but they’d be absolute idiots to give up their only leverage for basically nothing.
That the NYT is framing the refusal of an absolutely preposterous deal as a sign of Hamas wanting to continue the violence (which they absolutely do) while the Israeli government is making good faith attempts at peace (which it absolutely is NOT) is hardly surprising, though, given their general anti-palestinian bias.
What’s gross is acceptance of the idea that Hamas has 'leverage" because they took hostages. I take issue with the idea that taking hostages gives you leverage on anything, in any permanent sense. If Israel’s actions confirm anything (other than that they are just as capable of visiting the same atrocities on others as any humans are) it’s that. Show me what their actions have “levered” and I will show you a ruined land with a fast increasing body count. Way to apply yourselves champs.
It makes you a target. Period. One deserving of retribution. You don’t ever, ever get to walk away from that, so you don’t get to claim you have leverage. If anything, you’ve got baggage. Moreover, that baggage is going to, increasingly, claim collaterals. QE motherfucking D.
What’s gross is acceptance of the idea that Hamas has 'leverage" because they took hostages
You don’t have to like reality to understand it. The taking of innocent civilians as hostage is one of the many atrocities of Hamas that I unequivocally condemn. That doesn’t change the reality that those poor people ARE leverage in the negotiations, just like innocently imprisoned and tortured Palestinians are for the Israeli government.
I take issue with the idea that taking hostages gives you leverage on anything, in any permanent sense.
Again, acknowledging isn’t endorsing.
If Israel’s actions confirm anything (other than that they are just as capable of visiting the same atrocities on others as any humans are) it’s that
It’s what, exactly? That hostages aren’t used as leverage in ceasefire talks? Because Israel has leveraged innocently imprisoned Palestinians in every single ceasefire negotiation since the first one.
Show me what their actions have “levered” and I will show you a ruined land with a fast increasing body count. Way to apply yourselves champs.
Again completely missing the point in your quest to paint me and others as superfans of kidnapping as a political tactic.
It makes you a target. Period.
Being a Palestinian in Gaza (and to a lesser but still atrocious degree the West Bank) makes you a target. Period. No atrocities committed by Hamas necessary. Those are pretenses for what the fascist Netanyahu government already wanted to do, not the actual reasons.
One deserving of retribution
Now who’s being fucking gross? To say, knowing full well what Israeli government “retribution” looks like, that anyone could possibly deserve it is callously vengeful to the point of abhorrent bloodthirst.
You don’t ever, ever get to walk away from that
Don’t worry, at the very least double as many innocent Palestinian civilians as Hamas terrorists won’t.
you don’t get to claim you have leverage
Again with this complete ignorance of how ceasefire negotiations work, especially in THIS particular 75 year long conflict.
QE motherfucking D.
You have demonstrated nothing except your own ignorance and cocksure belief in the infallibility of your poor understanding.
There is already a deal from Hamas on the table and it has been called very reasonable by all parties except israel (especially Netanyahu) who doesn’t want peace.
Hamas rejected this nothing-burger deal that would make them give away all the hostages so they don’t get bombed for a few weeks and then israel annexes Gaza afterwards.
Any deal with the fact that Netanyahu and his Likud party stays in power are not reasonable either. Do we demand to throw out the entire israeli government too?
Our famous terrorist friend Nelson Mandela and his ANC party also stayed in power after their terrorism.
There is a big difference that Mandela didn’t want to exterminate white people, unlike Hamas.
Edit: But I believe that condition from Hamas that likud and the rest of extremists shouldn’t lead Israel would be valid and I would be the first to support it.
Is is a complicated history but even the Hamas founding charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. That’s a lie, and also intentionally ignores the 2017 Revised charter. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised version too. Hamas has committed atrocious acts, there’s no need to make things up about Hamas to show they’ve done terrible things. Ending the occupation and having a Palestinian election for the Palestinian people to choose their own leadership is the way to diminish support for Hamas and other Armed resistance groups. Further terrorizing the West Bank and Gaza will only increase their support, which has been shown historically not only within the Occupied Palestinian Territories but throughout history.
Hamas rejects nothing.
They have laid a deal on the table which would lead to a permanent ceasefire
Israel is the party rejecting the deal. Israel wants to ethnically cleanse and annex Gaza
Have you read the article? It’s evident this time it was Hamas who rejected.
Because the deal was ridiculous.
Israel is offering a temporary pause in exchange for all of the hostages while Netanyahu is saying that the invasion and resulting massacre in Rafah is still going to happen no matter what.
I don’t in any way condone the many atrocities of Hamas, but they’d be absolute idiots to give up their only leverage for basically nothing.
That the NYT is framing the refusal of an absolutely preposterous deal as a sign of Hamas wanting to continue the violence (which they absolutely do) while the Israeli government is making good faith attempts at peace (which it absolutely is NOT) is hardly surprising, though, given their general anti-palestinian bias.
What’s gross is acceptance of the idea that Hamas has 'leverage" because they took hostages. I take issue with the idea that taking hostages gives you leverage on anything, in any permanent sense. If Israel’s actions confirm anything (other than that they are just as capable of visiting the same atrocities on others as any humans are) it’s that. Show me what their actions have “levered” and I will show you a ruined land with a fast increasing body count. Way to apply yourselves champs.
It makes you a target. Period. One deserving of retribution. You don’t ever, ever get to walk away from that, so you don’t get to claim you have leverage. If anything, you’ve got baggage. Moreover, that baggage is going to, increasingly, claim collaterals. QE motherfucking D.
You don’t have to like reality to understand it. The taking of innocent civilians as hostage is one of the many atrocities of Hamas that I unequivocally condemn. That doesn’t change the reality that those poor people ARE leverage in the negotiations, just like innocently imprisoned and tortured Palestinians are for the Israeli government.
Again, acknowledging isn’t endorsing.
It’s what, exactly? That hostages aren’t used as leverage in ceasefire talks? Because Israel has leveraged innocently imprisoned Palestinians in every single ceasefire negotiation since the first one.
Again completely missing the point in your quest to paint me and others as superfans of kidnapping as a political tactic.
Being a Palestinian in Gaza (and to a lesser but still atrocious degree the West Bank) makes you a target. Period. No atrocities committed by Hamas necessary. Those are pretenses for what the fascist Netanyahu government already wanted to do, not the actual reasons.
Now who’s being fucking gross? To say, knowing full well what Israeli government “retribution” looks like, that anyone could possibly deserve it is callously vengeful to the point of abhorrent bloodthirst.
Don’t worry, at the very least double as many innocent Palestinian civilians as Hamas terrorists won’t.
Again with this complete ignorance of how ceasefire negotiations work, especially in THIS particular 75 year long conflict.
You have demonstrated nothing except your own ignorance and cocksure belief in the infallibility of your poor understanding.
There is already a deal from Hamas on the table and it has been called very reasonable by all parties except israel (especially Netanyahu) who doesn’t want peace.
Hamas rejected this nothing-burger deal that would make them give away all the hostages so they don’t get bombed for a few weeks and then israel annexes Gaza afterwards.
This would only delay annexation, not prevent it.
The deal proposed by Hamas counted with the fact Hamas would stay in power. Any deal similar where Hamas stays in power is not reasonable.
Any deal with the fact that Netanyahu and his Likud party stays in power are not reasonable either. Do we demand to throw out the entire israeli government too?
Our famous terrorist friend Nelson Mandela and his ANC party also stayed in power after their terrorism.
There is a big difference that Mandela didn’t want to exterminate white people, unlike Hamas.
Edit: But I believe that condition from Hamas that likud and the rest of extremists shouldn’t lead Israel would be valid and I would be the first to support it.
Is is a complicated history but even the Hamas founding charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. That’s a lie, and also intentionally ignores the 2017 Revised charter. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised version too. Hamas has committed atrocious acts, there’s no need to make things up about Hamas to show they’ve done terrible things. Ending the occupation and having a Palestinian election for the Palestinian people to choose their own leadership is the way to diminish support for Hamas and other Armed resistance groups. Further terrorizing the West Bank and Gaza will only increase their support, which has been shown historically not only within the Occupied Palestinian Territories but throughout history.
Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017
History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012
Gaza Blockade is still Occupation
Dahiya Doctrine
Gaza March for Return Protest
Apartheid
AWRAD Gaza War Poll
PCPSR Public Opinion Poll Dec 2023
Even if their testaments mention that they don’t want the to exterminate Israel, their actions say otherwise.
There’s Christians living in Gaza being sniped by the IDF not by Hamas. Explain to me how that works
He’s not arguing in good faith.
Here he’s arguing that Hamas hasn’t rejected anything, ie. they haven’t rejected a deal.
Further down in the comments, he says that the Israeli deal is stupid, thereby admitting that there is an Israeli deal which Hamas is rejecting.
Check out his comment history.