I think there was a plain old mortal human being who was named ‘Jesus Christ’, and maybe he had some good socio-political ideas, and maybe he was a charismatic person with a gift for public speaking, and in typical dumbass homosapien fashion took the things he was saying and turned them into a religion, then when he was killed for being inconvenient to those in power at the time, they created a whole mythology around him, martyred him, stole his body from where it was interred to create a mystery, and added all this ‘risen from the grave’ shit to it just to make it all go viral. Maybe he had some likewise charismatic people around him who were also decent writers who wrote up a bunch of fiction about him, and all that went viral also.
It’s not like we haven’t seen cult leaders in modern times get whole groups of people do insane things: Jonestown, for instance, that motherfucker convinced an entire colony of people to drink poison. On the less religious side, but still a cult: the MAGA movement surrounding Trump. You can’t reason with those people either, they “”“believe”“” what they “”“believe”“” and nothing you can say will reach any rational part of what brains they have.
Our species hasn’t really changed much to speak of in 2000 years. We live longer because most of us don’t live in filth anymore, don’t poison ourselves, don’t engage in ridiculously dangerous jobs without safety arrangements, and medical science, while far from what I’d call comprehensive, has risen past the point of witch-doctors and shamans and mysticism, there’s science involved with it, so people live past 40 on a regular basis. But our brains haven’t changed that much to speak of, and they’re still full of all sorts of obsolete hardwiring that makes many people just plain stupid about some things.
Ok so it’s your opinion. I have many opinions of my own.
there was a plain old mortal human being who was named ‘Jesus Christ’
Christ is a title not a name. Jesus was not the son of Mr. and Mrs. Christ. It is Greek and means “annoited one”. Coming from the traditions of the area of putting holy oil on the new king.
then when he was killed for being inconvenient to those in power at the time,
Why? No this isnt a flippant question. People who advocate for paying taxes, not starting drama, giving charity to poor people, non-violence, and respecting authority aren’t killed for it. Conduct the experiment yourself. Go to your local city hall and stand up there then give a speech about what he said. See what the powers-that-be do to you. “Hey everyone pay your taxes, listen to your government, if someone is poor try to help them out, dont start drama by cheating with your neighbor’s wife, and violence isnt the answer”. Even fucking North Korea gives awards out for charity work. Why the hell would the historical blood thirsty thing that Pilot was kill a person for telling people that they should be good servants to him?
If Jesus existed Pilot would have showered medals on the guy. Here was a guy walking around a province that was rebelling all the time telling people to respect the government and never be violent. Jesus would have been exactly the kind of man Rome wanted. A Jewish guy who could attract large crowds and tell them all to follow orders.
If you say he didn’t say these things, that the Gospel writers made it up later, I would ask you how do you know they didn’t make up the whole story?
Listen, buddy, let’s get one thing straight here right now: I am atheist. I don’t believe any religious bullshit.
Now, then: mythology sometimes has it’s roots in real people and events. That’s where I’m coming from with this. Could all be based on someone who actually existed, even though he was just some dude with some ideas about how people should treat each other. Too bad it all got out of control and is now twisted into the bullshit we have to deal with now.
I think I’ve stated where I’m coming from and what I wanted to say thoroughly enough. I don’t want to spend any time in big discussions about it, it’s not worth my time.
Oh and by the way if you’re some theist and think you’re going to talk me around, don’t waste your time, you’ll just piss me off for wasting my time, mmkay?
I am an atheist and I care about the truth. It is very very difficult to get a historical Jesus to fit the data. We have to assume so many people acted in unexpected ways in a precise sequence of events.
You are right however sometimes mythology does have roots in the truth. Judaism already had a story about a man leading a revolt, dying in combat, and his young follower taking over. The Macabees. James the Just would have been able to exploit that story in creating his mythical brother.
Fair. We do have documents from decades within his supposed life, those are the documents I am addressing.
Another fun thing to learn about this stuff: some of documents we have pointed to a Messiah figure of a 100 years prior. If that was the case Paul was dealing with an old cult that had made up a century worth of tales. This might be why Luke’s timeline was so different and why John couldn’t seem to figure out why so many stories happen in Jerusalem.
There really is no way to make a historical Jesus fit the data. We have a very clear idea of what the first half of the first century was like and to accept a historical Jesus means to accept that everything we know there is wrong.
I think there was a plain old mortal human being who was named ‘Jesus Christ’, and maybe he had some good socio-political ideas, and maybe he was a charismatic person with a gift for public speaking, and in typical dumbass homosapien fashion took the things he was saying and turned them into a religion, then when he was killed for being inconvenient to those in power at the time, they created a whole mythology around him, martyred him, stole his body from where it was interred to create a mystery, and added all this ‘risen from the grave’ shit to it just to make it all go viral. Maybe he had some likewise charismatic people around him who were also decent writers who wrote up a bunch of fiction about him, and all that went viral also. It’s not like we haven’t seen cult leaders in modern times get whole groups of people do insane things: Jonestown, for instance, that motherfucker convinced an entire colony of people to drink poison. On the less religious side, but still a cult: the MAGA movement surrounding Trump. You can’t reason with those people either, they “”“believe”“” what they “”“believe”“” and nothing you can say will reach any rational part of what brains they have. Our species hasn’t really changed much to speak of in 2000 years. We live longer because most of us don’t live in filth anymore, don’t poison ourselves, don’t engage in ridiculously dangerous jobs without safety arrangements, and medical science, while far from what I’d call comprehensive, has risen past the point of witch-doctors and shamans and mysticism, there’s science involved with it, so people live past 40 on a regular basis. But our brains haven’t changed that much to speak of, and they’re still full of all sorts of obsolete hardwiring that makes many people just plain stupid about some things.
Ok so it’s your opinion. I have many opinions of my own.
Christ is a title not a name. Jesus was not the son of Mr. and Mrs. Christ. It is Greek and means “annoited one”. Coming from the traditions of the area of putting holy oil on the new king.
Why? No this isnt a flippant question. People who advocate for paying taxes, not starting drama, giving charity to poor people, non-violence, and respecting authority aren’t killed for it. Conduct the experiment yourself. Go to your local city hall and stand up there then give a speech about what he said. See what the powers-that-be do to you. “Hey everyone pay your taxes, listen to your government, if someone is poor try to help them out, dont start drama by cheating with your neighbor’s wife, and violence isnt the answer”. Even fucking North Korea gives awards out for charity work. Why the hell would the historical blood thirsty thing that Pilot was kill a person for telling people that they should be good servants to him?
If Jesus existed Pilot would have showered medals on the guy. Here was a guy walking around a province that was rebelling all the time telling people to respect the government and never be violent. Jesus would have been exactly the kind of man Rome wanted. A Jewish guy who could attract large crowds and tell them all to follow orders.
If you say he didn’t say these things, that the Gospel writers made it up later, I would ask you how do you know they didn’t make up the whole story?
Listen, buddy, let’s get one thing straight here right now: I am atheist. I don’t believe any religious bullshit.
Now, then: mythology sometimes has it’s roots in real people and events. That’s where I’m coming from with this. Could all be based on someone who actually existed, even though he was just some dude with some ideas about how people should treat each other. Too bad it all got out of control and is now twisted into the bullshit we have to deal with now.
I think I’ve stated where I’m coming from and what I wanted to say thoroughly enough. I don’t want to spend any time in big discussions about it, it’s not worth my time.
Oh and by the way if you’re some theist and think you’re going to talk me around, don’t waste your time, you’ll just piss me off for wasting my time, mmkay?
I am an atheist and I care about the truth. It is very very difficult to get a historical Jesus to fit the data. We have to assume so many people acted in unexpected ways in a precise sequence of events.
You are right however sometimes mythology does have roots in the truth. Judaism already had a story about a man leading a revolt, dying in combat, and his young follower taking over. The Macabees. James the Just would have been able to exploit that story in creating his mythical brother.
I won’t be terribly surprised to hear that someone who allegedly lived and died 2000+ years ago might have a less than transparent story.
Fair. We do have documents from decades within his supposed life, those are the documents I am addressing.
Another fun thing to learn about this stuff: some of documents we have pointed to a Messiah figure of a 100 years prior. If that was the case Paul was dealing with an old cult that had made up a century worth of tales. This might be why Luke’s timeline was so different and why John couldn’t seem to figure out why so many stories happen in Jerusalem.
There really is no way to make a historical Jesus fit the data. We have a very clear idea of what the first half of the first century was like and to accept a historical Jesus means to accept that everything we know there is wrong.