Maps and documents recovered from the bodies of Hamas attackers reveal a coordinated plan to target children and take hostages inside an Israeli village near Gaza.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    People trusting the IDF in 2023 is something I’ll never understand.

    Their kneejerk reaction has always been to claim theyre the victim and their actions are 100% justified.

    So now, even when it might be true, there’s no way I’d ever trust their word on it.

    They’re like real life “boy that cried wolf”.

    • tallwookie@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      except the actual wolf is just across the border, launching rockets into civilian areas. Israel isnt the aggressor in this conflict, they’re simply responding in kind. hamas’s days are numbered at this point though

      • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        More than 700 Palestinian children and more than 400 women have been killed in the last 8 days by Israel, this is far from self defence or proportional.

        Edit: Israel has now inflicted over 2000 deaths and injured over 9000 others

        • rivermonster@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          I’ve never I understood the need to see “proportional casualties”, just strikes me as a deeply fucked up perspective.

          Trying to declare a good guy or bad guy in this conflict and region is only useful for exposing the supporters’ biases.

          The best moral way forward is to condemn all war crimes and atrocities. If, in doing so, someone says, “But… but…” or "more people died on this side, " then they have an agenda, and they’re not looking to condemn the actual violence and crimes.

          Israel’s collective punishment is objective a war crime by definition. Hamas’s attacks are war crimes. Period. War crimes don’t get negated by virtue of sympathy.

          • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            A state doesn’t have this right but when we talk about the right to self defence for individuals proportionality is very important. Most countries would not allow you to claim self defence from a mugging if you decapitated the attacker and sent the head to their family.

            Also if you’re both siding a genocide you’re either misinformed or for some reason siding with fascism.

            If you are calling for peace without removing the genocidal state then you are just calling for a continuation of the genocide.

            Palestinians have a right to risist occupation under the Geneva convention. You don’t get to tell them how they should resist a truely horrific situation.

            Israel is breaking international law by occupying and attacking Palestine. But most countries choose to look away and even directly support the genocidal state.

            This is like saying both sides are bad between the SS and resistance fighters because resistance fighters also committed war crimes.

            If you view WW2, Ukraine-Russia war, or SA apartheid as one sided then you are a hypocrite to not apply the same thinking here.

            • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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              1 year ago

              Palestinians have a right to risist occupation under the Geneva convention. You don’t get to tell them how they should resist a truely horrific situation.

              Do the Geneva conventions say anything about raping teenage girls as a method of resistance? What do they say about burning babies as a method of resistance? What effect did you think Hamas was going for when they brought a couple hundred Israeli civilians back and didn’t offer or suggest any terms for their release? Would you tie a family together so you could kill them together, if you were in their situation?

              See, because here, I thought that nobody anywhere had the right to target and torture civilians, and that there was no conceivable way that would lead to peace or any concessions that might actually help Palestinian people. Here, I thought that terrorists committing terrorism with the intent of provoking war might be a bad thing, I guess I’m just biased into thinking that burning civilians alive is maybe not the greatest idea.

          • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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            1 year ago

            Israel’s collective punishment is objective a war crime by definition.

            Only if you believe it’s collective punishment. I’ve argued that cutting off electricity and similar actions are not intended as punishment at all, it’s intended to reduce the rocket-making capabilities of Hamas and PIJ as they actively use every resource at their disposal to make and fire rockets.

            • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Ah yes grid electricity that is totally necessary for production of explosives and turning off doesn’t disproportionately affect all the people in hospitals that require it to live.

              It absolutely is collective punishment no matter the intent. The general public suffer.

              Way to act like a propogada mouthpiece for a genocidal state.

              • danhakimi@kbin.socialOP
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                1 year ago

                Israel supplied about half of Gaza’s electricity. They do not need more than the other half to run a hospital and a desalination plant. Hamas has been stealing all the fuel it can to create rockets and support other offensive capabilities. They aren’t struggling to produce enough electricity because they don’t have the ability to produce enough electricity, they’re struggling because Hamas is literally taking it from them.

                From Wikipedia, their power comes from:

                • Gaza’s sole power plant which has a nominal rating of 60–140 MW (figures vary due to degree of operation and damage to the plant) which is reliant on diesel fuel imported via Israel,[33][34]
                • 125 MW supplied by Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) via 10 power lines, and
                • 27 MW supplied by Egypt.[35][36]
                • plus various generators and things throughout Gaza.

                Power plant use fossil fuels, but Hamas has been stealing the fuel they have reserved, so yes, the power plant is operating below capacity. If they wanted to run the hospital or the desalination plant as badly as they wanted to fire rockets vaguely in the direction of Israel, they would.

                Way to act like a total dumbass who hasn’t spent more than five minutes researching the situation and refuses to learn.

                • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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                  1 year ago

                  which is reliant on diesel fuel imported via Israel

                  It wouldn’t be the current blockade by Israel that has caused the fuel shortage?

      • DocCrankenstein@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        except the actual wolf is just across the border, launching rockets into civilian areas.

        You do know that Israel has been doing this exact thing to Palestine for decades right?

        I’m sorry I it is bs saying Israel isn’t the aggressor. Which side has more civilian casualties again in this decades long conflict?