Incredible how readily people like this will accept open holocaust denial. Bandera and the OUN weren’t quiet about their politics, their participation in pogroms, or their collaboration with Nazi Germany. We don’t need to speculate about their motives, they came out and said them quite freely:
you based your entire opinion here on “whatever the opposite of America is”
Pure projection. I treat Russia as an ordinary liberal democratic state led by ordinary human people with rational self-interested motives rather than a cartoon villain with an army of mindless robots. My refusal to treat them as fundamentally evil, irrational, or inhuman doesn’t suggest that I think they’re “good”, selfless, or beyond criticism. It means I judge them by the same standards I’d use to judge any similar state with a similar political and economic system in similar circumstances.
I don’t need to like how America acts to also not like how Russia acts.
If you’re an American as I am, then your taxes funded the 2014 coup of Ukraine, the ongoing war on Donetsk and Luhansk, sabotaging the Minsk agreements, and prohibiting a negotiated end to the ongoing conflict. You’re not some unbiased neutral observer if you’re pretending to claim “both sides bad” while actively funding and voting to maintain the war and block every local attempt at peace. Absent continuous US intervention for over a decade, this war never happens.
I don’t care where Russia and Ukraine decide to put lines on a map between them. That’s exclusively up to the people that actually live there, and Euro-Americans like me aren’t entitled to an opinion about it. I care that my government stop using money generated by my community’s labor to murder the people that live there.
Believe it or not, history didn’t actually start in 2021, and Nazi collaborators didn’t all suddenly disappear in 1945 after enthusiastically carrying out the holocaust. Many German Nazis went right back to work at NATO, the West German government, and various US intelligence and military projects. The Ukrainian fascist organizations, Stepan Bandera’s Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists among them, that directly participated in the murder of over a million Jews, Poles, and communists operated continuously through the 2014 coup where they overthrew the democratically elected Ukrainian government with the backing of the United States. The coup government had been waging continuous open war on Russians living in Luhansk and Donetsk for 8 years before Russia came to their defense at the explicit request of their democratically elected governments.
Of course, you either already know this and don’t care, or you’re going to choose to ignore it to substitute with some cartoon fantasy about how there was peace in the world until Putin and his orcs arbitrarily decided to blacken the land with their unclean hordes and wipe out the good, clean, pure Men of the West for absolutely no reason and with no strategic objective beyond embodying the metaphysical concept of evil.
“Suddenly the Fuhrer is fascist just because he supports the Vichy government’s right to sovereignty over France?”
Germany continuing their longstanding tradition of funding Nazi collaborators to kill Russians.
“love it or leave it” says the “anti-authoritarian”
That’s been the goal of the regime since the US sponsored coup in 2014: to convert Ukraine into an imperial forward operating base from which to launch attacks into Russia in exchange for US assistance in propping up the coup government’s control over the territory.
Don’t flatter yourself. You have no identity of your own, and the one you borrow didn’t come from me. You have nothing, ideologically or materially, that wasn’t handed down to you by a long line of white slavers and settlers who took everything they have from other people, then called it “civilization” once all those other people were dead.
The Washington Post will solemnly report that every child in Gaza deliberately starved themselves to death because they couldn’t bear to live in a world that had Jews in it.
The New York Times will do a follow up story revealing that the IDF actually never attacked Gaza at all. The consensus of the intelligence community will be that Hamas actually bombarded themselves with US weaponry that they stole from Afghanistan after America’s misguided withdrawal.
Palestinian Jews are native to that area. No living non-Palestinian Jew had ever lived in Palestine or had immediate family living there before European colonization. This is an empirical fact. Your rejection of this fact isn’t born from observing material reality, it’s a pretext that you think must follow from your unstated premise that forcing living people out of their homes, murdering them, and then moving new people that have lived their entire lives elsewhere into those homes must be morally justifiable. You want to morally justify this because this activity is the basis of your society, and you don’t want to feel guilty about reaping the spoils of a society that does that to other people. The way you support doing that to other people while continuing to believe you’re a good person is by pretending that the dispossessed are somehow less human or brought it on themselves; that the settlers are actually entitled to the land by god, “natural law”, “manifest destiny”, or some other flimsy fictional pretext.
There is no basis for conversation, because you’re a white supremacist. That you don’t want to identify as such is immaterial. Segregationists would similarly maintain that they’re not racist and that “it’s not a race thing”. They maintain that they merely uphold “the natural order”. You’re firmly committed to the premise that people that seem like you are more human, people that seem less like you are less human, and that it’s therefore morally right to kill them and replace them with people that seem more like you. You’re unwilling to waver from that premise while it continues to materially benefit you, and so you’re unwilling to be convinced of anything that challenges that premise.
This is nihilistic child-brained nonsense.
“Israel” can’t be “bullied” by Palestine, because “Israel” doesn’t exist independent of the theft of Palestinian land. They’re not neighbors. Palestine is a land with people living on it. “Israel” is what that same land is called after the people already living there have been murdered or expelled to be replaced with settlers.
Nazi Germany was a “Western power”. It wasn’t their relative size that made them “the bad guys” in my judgement, it was their theft of land and extermination of the people already living on that land to be replaced with settlers: the same thing being done to Palestine today. It’s also the same thing the other “Western powers” did to the Americas, which the Nazis openly drew inspiration from.
I believe all of those things are bad. The reason you believe it was only bad when the Nazis did it is because the Nazis did it to fellow whites.
Some of them originate in Palestine, where they lived before Europe created “Israel”. Some of them originated from other states in west Asia or east Africa, or the Americas where they have the means and opportunity to freely return. Some of them were born in occupied Palestine, where they have every right to stay and live as equals when Palestine is liberated from colonization.
Those weren’t the people that created the state of “Israel”. They didn’t drive the rest of the population out of their homes, and none of those people will stop existing when the occupying state is destroyed. Neither will any other Jewish people living across the world calling for peace, no matter how much you’d prefer to erase them and see them expelled from your country. They survived Europe’s past attempts to expel and exterminate them, and they’ll certainly survive the end of Euro-American colonialism in Palestine.
“Actually white people originate from Africa, so we have a right to take back the ancestral homeland of the white race”.
“There are plenty of ‘black countries’ for them to choose, this should be a white country for us.”
“If those people keep reproducing, soon white people won’t be a majority, and that’s ‘white genocide’.”
Arguments like this are only plausible to terminally racist settlers. You go along with them because it licenses you to keep pursuing your material interest in murdering people that don’t look like you and stealing their land. After all, if the people living in Palestine have a right to live in their homes without being invaded and exterminated, then that raises some uncomfortable questions about the US, Canada, Australia, and other countries built on land theft and extermination by white Europeans. You obviously can’t think too hard about that and still believe that you’re the protagonist of history, so you’ll seek out any flimsy justification to keep believing that bombing hospitals makes you heroic.
Hamas is correct. “Israel” is a European settler colony, and like other European settler colonies, it depends on the removal of the indigenous population and theft of their land. Palestinians have exhausted every possible alternative to violence over decades, and it’s brought them to the brink of extinction. Their options are to fight for their lives and right to return to their homes, or to be exterminated as a people by the Israeli state. Palestinian Jews existed before Europe created Israel, and they’ll exist as equals after Palestine is free.
That’s only true if you think the colonized being exterminated and the colonizers doing the exterminating are equally bad for fighting. One side holds all the power, and that’s the side you default your moral alignment to because you are either a settler, or you benefit from settler colonialism.
The ones that tried to expel and exterminate the Jewish people were white Europeans, you Holocaust denying ghoul. The ones you think “just like punching people” are being beaten and jailed by white Europeans while calling for a cease fire. The people we’re standing shoulder to shoulder with are Jews across the world calling for peace: Jews that you insist can’t exist while a single Palestinian child remains living.
Jews will continue to live in a free Palestine long after the European settler colonial ethnostate called “Israel” is destroyed, and they’ll continue to live in Europe despite Europe’s best efforts to get rid of them.
Imagine how much of a bloodthirsty genocidal freak you have to be to casually claim that it’s a totally normal, valid, and morally neutral thing for a population to lose their homes “via conquest”, then compare the people protesting their own ongoing ethnic cleansing by settler colonists to nazis.
This dude would have volunteered to work the gas chambers.
As observably true as these facts here are, we shouldn’t have an opinion about them until they’re repeated by a neutral and unbiased source like the IDF or the US state department.
That’s because Palestine has no military: the entire population lives in a cage. You’re witnessing the extermination of a captive population in real time.
The former definition is being openly stated by the Israeli president, prime minister, and senior government officials as explicit justification for years of illegal settlements and apartheid.
The latter definition is a purely speculative excuse from Euro-American liberals that ignores that Palestinian Jews existed before Zionism in order to pretend that Jews can’t exist as part of a multiethnic society.