The case will test how far the court’s conservative majority is willing to go in interpreting the scope of its 2022 ruling that expanded gun rights outside the home.
The Supreme Court on Tuesday indicated it would uphold a federal law that prohibits people under domestic violence restraining orders from owning firearms, potentially limiting the scope of its own major gun rights ruling from last year.
The case gives the court’s 6-3 conservative majority a chance to consider the broad ramifications of the 2022 decision, which for the first time found that there is a right to bear arms outside the home under the Constitution’s Second Amendment.
I fully support disarming cops.
Sometimes they need guns, but yeah, they definitely overuse them.
This is topical in relation to the article, as police have significantly higher rates of domestic violence than the general public.
I think they’re alluding to the fact that domestic abusers are grossly overrepresented among cops? And thereby suggesting that such a law, if feasible to enforce against all such offenders, would amount to disarming cops wholesale.
Sneaky way to disarm the cops
Just remember qualified immunity exists.
“Your honor I feared for my life, you should have seen the dinner she made, it was subpar at best.”
In the dim lighting, the potroast, burnt, appeared to be an “urban”, African American Male, young twenties, medium build and height. The gravy boat, a Glock 19 held sideways in a “gangster” style. All on my kitchen table. In my own home. I acted decisively, as any trained officer of the law would. I attempted to eliminate the potroast. There were unfortunate civilian casualties; but, in my judgment, swift action was necessary to uphold the law.
She came right on me.
this is hot
who would have absolute latitude in choosing whether to enforce these laws?
Isn’t this title inaccurate? It’s about restraining orders, not accusations. Support though!
I believe judges can issue temporary restraining orders against people not yet convicted of domestic violence, and that’s what they mean by “accused”, just that it hasn’t been proven in court and gotten a guilty verdict.
Ah, makes sense, thanks.
They are usually a package deal
Hopefully such a decision will roll back some of the bullshit that’s been coming out of lower courts since Bruen. The nonsensical historical analog standard Thomas has unleashed just doesn’t work, and too many pro-gun judges are demanding EXACT historical precedent rather than an analog. Not that I agree with Bruen, but at the least, having historical precedent for restricting guns from people deemed dangerous should be enough, even if it isn’t specific to domestic violence (a concept that didn’t really exist in the 18th century).
Seems like restricting arms for someone who has a reasonable suspicion of domestic violence, enough to get a restraining order anyway, is consistent with a well regulated militia.
There is no standard of proof for restraining orders.
On one hand, there’s the risk that someone might get murdered by their spouse. On the other, the risk that someone is wrongfully deprived of their guns for a period of time.
Which risk should we minimize? This doesn’t seem like a tough decision to me.
It’s not! The right of an individual to own a small arsenal with absolutely no oversight or regulation whatsoever is
SCOTUSConstitutionally guaranteed, while living is not. If life were so important, why didn’t the founding fathers put that in the Constitution?Ergo, me spending more on ammunition than my local school district spends on feeding its students clearly supercedes some random woman’s privilege to life.
See? Easy!
(If you thought any of the above sounded remotely sensical, for the love of God don’t vote and don’t have kids.)
Something something
LifeGuns, liberty, and the pursuit of (trigger) happiness?
Yeah I’m thinking about my brother, who had guns, and his crazy girlfriend had one filed against him just because she’s vindictive and was pissed off at him. But, if it saves people from those that are truly harmful and violent, I’m all for it.
It’s not just about the guns. Once they can ignore your 14A-guaranteed rights for one thing (which is 2A-protected, so about as sacrosanct as possible), they can ignore it for everything. Do you really want to be put in prison without a trial as soon as some cop arrests you for something the cop made up?
Does any pro-gun argument not lean heavily on slippery slopes? Why is it only possible to oppose the law when it impacts guns but not if cops start “putting you in prison without a trial for something they just made up”
And of course, we do imprison people who are awaiting trial when it’s determined the risk to public safety is too high.
Do you really want to be put in prison without a trial as soon as some cop arrests you for something the cop made up?
Like that doesn’t already happen?
Do you want to make it easier?
I don’t see how this makes it any easier. Furthermore, the previous person’s entire argument was that this would set the precedent that allows this to start happening. It already happens and is very typical for anyone charged with a crime.
Your second amendment right doesnt protect you from law enforcement.
But there is a judge, just like with warrants.
There is also a judge every time a judge takes a shit in the bathroom. That doesn’t mean the pooping satisfies due process.
What do you even mean? Preponderance of the evidence is the standard used in most jurisdictions. They must satisfy all elements required to that standard. The elements may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction though. In my jurisdiction it is caused or attempted to cause harm, or put someone in fear of imminent serious physical harm.
What do you even mean? Preponderance of the evidence is the standard used in most jurisdictions.
You’re wrong.
or put someone in fear of imminent serious physical harm.
What do you think the legal test for this is? It’s nothing more than someone claiming they are in fear.
Most jurisdictions will issue a restraining order solely on the claims of the filer. But if you want to save yourself some time verifying this, just look up state of California (biggest jurisdiction in the US). Word of the accuser is all it takes. Then go look up the state of California guide for bench judges which requires judges to also revoke gun ownership rights for anyone who is the subject of a restraining order.
The restraining order process can be (and regularly is) weaponized, without evidence, by people who just want to make life a living hell for their ex who pissed them off, with no repurcussions for false accusations.
Some people actually believe you shouldn’t have your rights trounced without due process of a trial.
You’re wrong
I’m an attorney who has represented clients seeking restraining orders and those opposing them. I assure you I’m not.
In my jurisdiction, a filer has to complete an affidavit and appear before a judge. At that point a temporary order can issue for no more than 10 days. That allows time for the Defendant to be served and appear for a two party hearing. After that the temporary order can be extended for up to one year, dissolved, or allowed to expire.
The Defendant will be heard within 10 days. I’m not sure how you’d better balance the competing interests. If an order isn’t issued, someone could be seriously harmed or killed.
You’re saying that judges are instructed to remove the guns of someone who is determined to be a reasonable threat to harm another or cause serious bodily harm? Fantastic!
How often do you imagine that restraining orders are weaponized, versus the number of times they’re issued because of need? Not to mention that affidavits have to be sworn under the pains and penalties of perjury, that can include years in prison.
State population of California is roughly 39 million. State population of Florida is roughly 22 million. That alone covers 18% of the US population.
For California: see California Family Code, Chapter 2, Section 6250, Paragraph (A) here: https://studentaffairs.fresnostate.edu/survivoradvocate/documents/CA Victim Protection Statutes.pdf
Excerpt from the ‘requirements’ section:
a person’s allegation of a recent incident of abuse or threat of abuse
For Florida: see 2023 Florida Statutes, Title XLIII (43) Domestic Relations, Chapter 741, Section 740.30. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0741/Sections/0741.30.html
Relevant excerpt describing the requirements and process:
(a) Any person described in paragraph (e), who is either the victim of domestic violence as defined in s. 741.28 or has reasonable cause to believe he or she is in imminent danger of becoming the victim of any act of domestic violence, has standing in the circuit court to file a sworn petition for an injunction for protection against domestic violence. (f) This cause of action for an injunction shall not require that either party be represented by an attorney.
In both states, all it takes is the unsubstantiated claim of the accuser on a sworn petition to ‘claim they feel afraid’. Funny that you lead with “I’m an attorney” when the process doesn’t even require an attorney in Florida. I’m not going to waste my time looking this up for each and every state, but I’ll assert that Florida is not alone on the lack of requirement for an attorney to file the motion. I’ll also assert that neither California nor Florida are alone in the fact that neither require any evidence beyond the say-so of the accuser claiming they feel threatened. But since you do claim to be an attorney, I invite you to read those state statutes, tell me I’m wrong, and assert that the process cannot be weaponized by the accuser just to make life a living hell for the accused. When was the last time you even heard of someone suffering any consequences at all for filing a falsified petition for restraining order? I’ll bet never. I’ve witnessed several instances of this happing with zero consequences, not against me, but against friends and family) and even after being proven false later in an actual court proceeding, there were zero consequences for the falsified petition even when the financial and reputational damage caused to the accused was substantial.
If you really are an attorney, you must practice in a jurisdiction with stricter requirements. Lucky you. The topic we are discussing is a national issue, not a local-to-you one, so you must consider the reality that not all jurisdictions are like yours.
What do you mean? One has to be put in motion and surely there are records of such, how would an “authority figure” know if you violated one if there wasn’t?
I think restraining orders, at least temporary ones, have a low threshold. Basically an unsubstantiated accusation is enough.
It’s supposed to be to protect the vulnerable, but can also be abused. Domestic abuse is complicated, and often comes down to “he said she said” muddy water without much provable fact.
But wait, @ysjet says that that’s a bad narrative and it never happens, is it possible he or she has no idea what they’re talking about?
The statistics say this should have been done decades ago and permanently. The number of women who have been killed by their abusive domestic partner AFTER escalation is too damn high.
I disapprove of headlines that attempt to telegraph how justices will rule based on oral arguments alone. You’re gonna have to wait 6-12 months for an actual ruling and it will likely be extremely narrowly tailored to a given situation.
Here’s the problem, there’s simply no logical way to square this with Bruen. Restraining orders and domestic violence prevention weren’t part of the gun regulation at the founding of this country. It’s obvious to most people that the state should have that authority, but it doesn’t seem possible in the light of Bruen. Incoming mental gymnastics from SCOTUS…
Amazing. A very right leaning, American court - and they might show common sense on a gun-related issue? Really, truely amazing.
