I’m getting sick every day at this Microsoft Windows slowness and bloat. I am trying to use as much Linux VMs as possible. I feel so unproductive on Windows. I also tried installing Linux on the office laptop. The problem is that Windows is officialy supported and the Linux is DYI. Once the IT departament changes it will sync up with Windows but Linux can be broken and you are no longer able to work. Next job I want to have full Linux laptop or at least Mac.
Besides:
- Microsoft Office
- Active Directory
- Some proxy and VPN bullshit
Everything seems manageable and even better on Linux.
What is your experience?
Windows 11, and the group policies doesn’t allow us to use WSL. We also can’t directly SSH into any servers so we have to go trough a Citrix session to a Windows 10 “admin server” and then SSH or RDP to a Linux server. And Windows Terminal isn’t installed on the Windows 10 server, so it’s either CMD or the Powershell terminal.
It’s absolutely fucking miserable. I’m a Linux sysadmin who do a lot of automation (ansible etc) but also Python development. Try it yourselves and see how long you last! I’m jumping the fucking ship in a month though, thank the gods.
All the result of an over confident “security organization”, with a lot of hubris.
But the best part? It’s a $5000 work laptop, and my 6 year old Thinkpad (with Linux) runs laps around the thing any day of the week. Opening the file explorer takes, most of the time, 5+ seconds…
Fuck my life, and fuck this company.
I have several clients with this kind of setup. I’m always baffled at the amount of hoops I have to go through to connect to my Linux server. Sometimes I have to remote desktop to a windows virtual desktop and then use the citrix session to another windows machine VIA BROWSER so I can finally ssh to the machine. Are they trying to bore attackers to death?
LOL
They are trying to bore only your customers, attackers have direct access (=
Oh my that sounds even worse than at my company. I don’t understand also why disallow WSL. And yeah I don’t think that this is laptop’s fault anymore, just has been enshititifacted with software bloat.
But the best part? It’s a $5000 work laptop, and my 6 year old Thinkpad (with Linux) runs laps around the thing any day of the week. Opening the file explorer takes, most of the time, 5+ seconds…
In my previous job I was doing Java development on e-commerce (Hybris, then renamed to SAP Commerce) and the laptop (a beefy thinkpad) took ages from powering on to being able to work, also Java compilation could take 30 min and just starting up the project on local another 5.
Had the opportunity to install Linux (the policy was that dual boot was required and don’t disturb IT with Linux issues) and oh boy, from turning on to being able to work was incredible fast. Compiling went from 30 to 5 min (with same Java official version from oracle in order to avoid any implementation discrepancies between openjdk and the oracle JDK in prod), and starting tje local server went from have enough time for preparing a coffee to seconds.
Unfortunately my current job only allows Windows and the policies are too strict.
I nearly threw up reading first paragraph 😂
I have a fairly new, expensive (not $5000 expensive though) laptop from work. It’s quite a high powered laptop. It’s full of administration crap that constantly runs in the background using 8 GB of RAM and at least 20% of the CPU, nonstop. Daily I run out of RAM and it freezes. I have a 15 year old laptop that, without exaggeration, is faster to use and can run more programs without running out of RAM.
Software dev here. The only Linux I ever hear of at my job is Open shift. That’s about it. We are neck deep into windows. And honestly, I don’t care. It’s a job and my bills are paid. My house is full of Linux, and I don’t care what a big corporation wants to use for their software.
True but I miss quickness of Linux, being native with my apps and just having my environment. I don’t think I ever gotten a nice working environment as it is constant struggle. On Linux I can say it’s good enough.
Understandable. Make do with what’s available, friend.
Yeah also I’ve seen some guys trying to have Windows OS with Linux VM. Or the opposite Linux OS with Windows VM for Office stuff. Sounds like a good agreement but with my barely working office laptop I don’t think so. It would be nice to have out of the box image support of office Windows though.
This mind set has it’s limit when you need to get something done, see your family after 8h of work and don’t log overtime for some stupid windows s****.
But, yes, in most cases I just log additional unproductive time in my timesheet. It would suck, if I couldn’t compansate the overtime and leave work earlier on Fridays or so. Management has to live with the fact that working with Windows is not as efficient.
Right. But what can you do if your job has absolutely no interest in Linux? Force them? I’ve talked to some leads and managers and they laughed at the idea of using Linux. They just don’t need it for whatever they do. And 100% of our backend is SQL and C#. And you know how much they drool over visual studio and all those MS products.
Our dev stack could totally run on Linux, but management wants standardization for security reasons. We have a mixed environment of Win10 and Win11 and our scripts to setup and update the dev environment produce sometimes unpredictable results even on the same version of Windows. <_<
We’re not even using WSL2 to speed things up because we don’t get enough time to adapt our scripts to configure docker to use WSL2.
My next move will be asking to get Fridays off, because they denied my whish to use Linux. If they deny my part-time request, I will look elsewhere in 2025.
Good luck. Hope they don’t deny this one, too.
C# on Visual Studio is a fucking nightmare. Switched to Rider on WSL the first chance I had, not looking back.
Then again, if this is running on .NET Framework, there is no choice, afaik. You get a buttplug made of barbed wire in Windows + VS, and you’ll like it
I couldn’t agree more, bud your last statement seals it. You WILL like it. Lol
MacOS. Systems doesn’t want to support Linux, and the only other option is windows 11. A few of my coworkers have Win11 with WSL and fight it every single day. They’re diehard windows people who have been seriously considering moving to MacOS for their next round of upgrades.
Same here. I really really tried with WSL but the experience is miserable.
Swapped to MacOS and like night and day. I’d be perfectly happy with a £300 linux laptop though.
What about the experience is miserable? I’m just curious as I really like it.
Yeah, I do all my development in WSL2 (Ubuntu) at work every day. I use VSCode on the Windows 11 host. It’s great!
Would I prefer to use Linux natively? Sure, but I also have to support some Windows-only legacy code and a D365 environment or two, so Windows makes sense.
I am happy with WSL as well. I don’t try to get Linux GUI running.
I use vscode remote ssh session. I run docker natively on Linux, not on windows.
The trick is to get DBUS services running in whatever flavor of Linux you install. Don’t try running a full UI session.
The biggest problem I have on Linux is time drift after laptop goes to sleep. it is easy to deal with manually.
Do you have a guide that makes this possible?
And what do you mean by using vscode remote ssh session? Does this vscode instance is started from the WSL via some kind of
ssh- Y?Vscode is installed on windows. Then you install vscode ssh plugin from Microsoft and open ssh connection from vscode to any Linux including WSL hosted Linux.
Yeah, it is slow in the end, not native, many things to configure (like proxies) and so on…
Great! Was it hard also to switch to MacOS as a Linux user for work?
I actually run away from Mac. Mac OS X is long time as not Linux.
WSL is a way better option than whatever VM option is on Mac.
Also Mac here. I started with a linux laptop but still have to do some desktop support work for the company and since they all use Mac it’s just easier to dogfood it. At least I have a decent terminal emulator.
Try this terminal emulator then https://github.com/gnachman/iTerm2
I think I’m also in this group right now. Just not Windows…
I don’t use Windows anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not one of those “Linux purists”, if other people wanna use Windows, go ahead. But I’m not using it. I swear to god, if it becomes mandatory to use Windows at my company, I’m leaving the next day.
Hah I don’t have that privilege but same mindset. It is weird to me that in many companies you were deprived of choice at least. Linux can be worse too but let me just try it and see.
The reason that most companies don’t want you to do that is because they don’t want people running around installing their own OS and doing whatever they feel like on company devices.
Letting people do that would be an IT and information security nightmare.
It’s the same reason that no (sane) company would give local admin privileges to everyone.
The reason why companies generally don’t have an official way to use Linux is because it’s hard to support two platforms simultaneously. Especially when you have, certificate and/or AD network authentication for wireless and wired like we do. You also need to consider how the two platforms should interact with each other. For example Linux devices should be able to connect to the AD domain with Kerberos and need to be able to access SMB shares and probably other systems.
In short it’s more complicated than “just let me try”.
I understand your point but I disagree. My senior head of security department uses Linux with Windows VM for Microsoft stuff like Office, Outlook, Teams etc. Besides that many things are handled through configured LDAP with AD and many pain points through Linux and Windows interchangeability is solved through Samba like fileservers. I also hear more and more about FreeIPA thing. I only heard and read of Kerberos that is hard to do.
For everything else like
- proxies
- certificates
- VPNs
Everything is the same or even better and more secure on Linux. SSL stuff just comes from it… Even from BSD systems I think that is known for simplicity and security. With so many bloat on Windows there is so much vulnerabilities and things to manage while you can KISS. (Keep It Simple Stupid)
I don’t need 80% things on Windows but I do have them as I’m forced to and they also are like some ticking security bomb.
I don’t ask for a perfect Linux support, but at least an ability to do so. I tried it and in the end it came out that Microsoft likes Windows more than Linux (I know surprising). Intune crashed, certificates were weirdly Windows specific and after that I gave up.
Isn’t freedom about doing whatever you want especially when you want to get as much of your system, hardware so they just can squeeze as much productivity as possible from an employee?
i use a linux laptop; but then they got bought out and our new overlords won’t let me get another one.
i’ve had it for 5 years now since i didn’t want switch to mac during the last 2 refresh periods; but it’s only a matter of time before it dies.
i think i’ll just switch jobs when it does. lol
Mac is still better evil than Windows but same haha
My wife complained that Mac got worse at searching samba shares.
How?
I have tried using my pc as a hackintosh for the heck of it (it was surprisingly easy) it feels bad like everytime you have a untrusted app you need to allow it in settings and even windows 11 feels better. But this is just my opinion maybe mac os has changed and is better now.
i’ve had macbooks for work before and they work okay like windows does; but i think i’ll end up with windows since i do 99% of my work in a terminal emulator with keyboard mapping customizations and re-mapping the keyboard in mac takes weeks/months of trial and error to get it right since it requires me to shift all of the other keys & their shortcuts around to get it work like it does in linux.
i’ve also used wsl in windows for work before too and that worked better for me since i didn’t do anything extra besides copy/paste of my keyboard map. also: since i only use the laptop for work, i don’t care about microsoft being evil; i’ll let the infosec guys handle that.
Wdym with linux can be broken?
Don’t mess woth the system and go atomic. Fedora atomic kde or gnome or wm
Wdym with linux can be broken?
Linux mint kept harassing me to install the official drivers for my wireless card, so I did. It broke my ability to use WiFi.
I told Linux while in presentation mode I did not want the screen to sleep, it took that as sleep after 5 minutes.
Every time the laptop sleeps/restarts my screen resolution is borked, half the time the correct resolutions are not available and I have to disconnect all my monitors, restart, then connect the monitors.
Most solutions I hear are use a different distro, learn command line, you should not be using Linux if you cannot fix this stuff.
That is what i mean when I say Linux can be broken.
Those things happen on windows as well
I moved to macOS full time now. Things work much better now.
Less bloaty? How much?
Corporate support for Macs is usually worth than on Windows.
It is a very risky move.
Nice, why risky?
Yep, many people complain about Wayland and just graphic things in general. On Windows on the other hand sometimes I cannot click buttons. Example: unmute myself in Teams. Why? Because the docking station after some time cannot figure out where is the focus and also Electron sucks. And many other thing like weird behaviour with moving apps’ windows from one screen to another.
I would argue that they happen way more on Windows. I’ve never had any of that happen to me on Linux (mostly a Fedora user) but plenty of times on Windows from 7 to 11.
The worst part is it is not Windows fault. The pure kernel and the system without any bloat works great. I tried AtlasOS once and I felt bad for Microsoft engineers that their work is being spoiled with greed, bloat, enshititifaction. Everything was going smoothly and flawlessly.
But so many components are just… Hacky… Unnecessary… Just weird that it barely works especially so many companies don’t know what they are doing. Then the dependency hell happens of this software.
Linux on the other hand is so much transparent.
Lol i think most of us Linux people just forget how basic most peoples computer usage is. An example, i wanted a program yesterday. Im on Manjaro and it was a .deb so i had to look it up in the AUR, clone it, compile and install it. All in command line. To someone who is used to that its not a big deal just some copy and paste and searching. To someone who is used to windows where you download .exe, and click install thats a herculean task.
I disagree that people shouldnt use linux if they cant fix stuff on their own etc. I fully support making some distros entirely GUI and really easy to use because some people just need that and theres nothing wrong with not wanting to get all into the weeds setting up a computer. Thats the whole point of distros is to have various options for different use cases. I hope youll be able to find a linux setup that works for what you need. As of now a little bit of terminal may be needed even in the easier to use distros depending on what your doing tho.
If you’re on Mint still, that’s X11 fucking you over. AFAIK, Mint hasn’t moved to Wayland, though you might be able to install an experimental session, but I wouldn’t trust it like a distro that’s all-in on Wayland.
I used to contend with monitors jumping around like a jack russell terrier with X11, never keeping settings, dropping out due to ACPI. Wayland has fixed pretty much everything I had going wrong with that stuff.
Boot a live USB of some distros that default to Wayland like Fedora, and see how it reacts to screensaving, then make some choices from there.
I moved to macOS full time now.
How do you like it?
I like it a lot. The initial move was predicated by working in the entertainment industry and all the shows coming through our theater needed qlab.
But after that I started using it for personal use. I was unable to move my photoshop cs6 license over because I have been unable to get a copy of it in 64bit. But I have since switched to affinity. It has a steep learning curve, but I mostly use it for graphics for my shop so it does what I need it to do.
I have been using libre office since forever, that moved over with me.
Before getting my MacBook Pro I was doing most of my gaming on my ps5, so I am not missing a lot there. But most of the games I do play are available on the Mac (No Man’s Sky, FF14, Palia, mudlet, Apico, Mudborne).
When I connect a monitor it works, when I connect a TV through my 4x4 matrix it works.
Yet Wayland is still working on proper color management… which doesn’t make it fit for professional work
Changes from the upstream can make your system nonfunctional. For example VPN for remote connection. They change something, push to Windows but on Linux you need to figure it out by yourself.
On linux you just put the ovpn into the settings. VPN connections are built into the system
Yes, I have used systems that broke. Yes I followed bad advice and broke my system. Ever since not touching my system, that didn’t happen again. If I would touch windows, I would brik windows as well.
Yeah that’s another thing that Windows can break in the same way as Linux.
With an atomic system it’s less likely to brick your system. You can stay in the debian world with vanillaos (I’ve never used it) but fedora atomic is very good. On a day to day basis you shouldn’t have/use admin rights to break your system
Fedora atomic or not is nice.
I got tired of manually installing Arch and was pleased with Fedora the most.
My current company is being absorbed into a much larger company right now, got bought out earlier this year.
I was the only IT for the smaller company, and I was using 100% Linux (Debian with KDE Plasma) on my laptop to administrate everything in our environment, which is mostly Windows.
- Our DC with AD on it, I used Remmina to RDP into it for admin tasks.
- O365 and Azure/Entra stuff was all in the browser.
- Our ERP system is cloud-based, so browser was fine for that too.
- Our access control system was cloud-based and the RFID card reader/writer was plug-n-play on Linux.
- Our company SMB share worked fine with Linux in Plasma using my AD credentials.
- I set up my company OneDrive sync using rclone, it also worked flawlessly.
- Our Fortigate firewall VPN has a native Linux app which, although ugly as sin, works without issue.
- I used OnlyOffice for a while, then switched back to LibreOffice. Both worked basically perfect, a few very minor font bugs, (bullet lists having a slightly different style for the bullets, etc.)
- Teams, I used a wrapper flatpak for a while, which worked fine, then switched to the browser version of Teams. No major issues, I had a bunch of meetings, screen shares, webcam, presentations all on Teams in Linux, pretty seamless.
- Email, Outlook in the browser is fine. I also used Thunderbird for a bit, but didn’t like how buggy it was in the Flatpak version, and the Debian package was way too out of date for my taste.
Now that we got bought out, I am being forced off my Linux laptop and onto the new company’s Windows laptop, which really sucks. I am planning on quitting soon, as I hate using Windows and I am very underpaid at my current job as it is. Only real perk was not having to report to any IT manager/CTO, and being able to use Linux.
Mixed environment, bunch of windows servers and a bunch of Linux servers. I currently run NixOS on my company owned Framework laptop, with the caveat that I have to deal with or work around any weirdness that comes up.
I’ve been wanting for a while now to fix up my config (weird sleep waking issues, broken hibernate, implement full disk encryption) or maybe switch to Fedora. Just haven’t had the time.
Remmina is great for RDP, OnlyOffice preserves Microsoft office formatting well, KDE’s network manager has working VPN connections for Cisco and Palo Alto, and I do a lot from the browser (email, O365 admin,etc).
There is friction, though. As mentioned the sleep issues. Never fun getting to a site and finding a hot, dead laptop in my bag because it decided to wake up and not go back to sleep.
For things that HAVE to be done in Windows I have a VM I haven’t powered on in a months or two, and a “tech” server to rdp to with more network access.
I’d also like to get more familiar with Nix. I can handle system settings and packages from the Nix repositories, but packaging my own software is something I’d like to learn (software and printer drivers for Ubuntu/fedora, etc).
the sleep issues.
Ah, the life of a sysadmin
MacOS, nearly everyone who does anything with development or ops is using a MacBook. Though lately more “normal” employees have been getting MacBooks too.
At least they have some kind of choice…
If this what works for work stuff, then more power to ya. I just hope you don’t do any personal stuff on there…
We have some client’s engineers who use MacBooks. I’ll just say that I’m wary of anyone technical using MacOS at this point.
Though some of our devs use them too, but from what I’ve seen, they could just as well use Linux.
Wary why? I work remotely in IT and manage a ton of Linux systems with it. Because my company has a large number of remote employees they limit us to Windows or Macs only, and have pretty robust MDM, security, etc. installed on them. Since MacOS is built on top of a unix kernel it’s much more intuitive to manage other unix & linux systems with it.
Personally I haven’t used Windows really since before Windows 10 came out, and as the family tech support department I managed to switch my wife, parents, brother, and mother in-law all to Mac’s years ago as well.
I’ve met some folks who’d use an Apple laptop as part of their general attempt to look more competent than they actually were, for managers and such. Or maybe just for their ego.
If your choice is between Windows and MacOS - I dunno. Depends on how AuDHD-tolerant one can make MacOS. What I usually see doesn’t inspire confidence.
This is very anecdotal, but both myself and the vast majority of my peers use macOS as their base host system. I work in cybersecurity, specifically offensive penetration testing. Myself, most of my coworkers, and probably half of my peers I’m competing against at local conference CTFs or that I know at local meetups are using a MacBook host with VMs spun up to need.
Something like 75% of my job is done in a Linux VM. Doing it on a MacBook is infinitely more pleasant than any other laptop I’ve ever tried using, regardless of what OS it’s running.
Also, and again extremely anecdotal, the most technical people I’ve ever known were all using hackintoshes when I knew them, and would use MacBooks when away from the home/office.
I really don’t understand where this “Mac products are for non-technical people who want to appear technical” trope comes from. MacOS is a phenomenal product for non-technical people. My partner is the least technical person in the world, but they started using macOS in art school and found it intuitive and easy to use. As a technical person, I appreciate the polished UI built on top of the Unix kernel and that I can do everything I need to do from a terminal shell. The fact that the product is excellent for both wildly disparate types of users is testament to how great it is imo.
It’s different between countries, I suppose.
Also people want different things. For me customizable desktops (say, FVWM however I want to script it) are important, because I easily get distracted and overloaded. I also can’t ignore aesthetics, and in my subjective taste Apple style is concentrated bad taste combined with arrogance. Also there’s something in their UI design making me feel nausea and get tired faster. I don’t know what it is.
Other people want something else.
It comes from subjective experience in a country where Apple is traditionally not very popular.
I also can’t separate their disgusting advertising from their products, subjective again.
Yes, I use Fedora and love to break the permissions of shared Office-Documents. /s
The only thing I have learned is not to go too deep into customisation. Because people watching me using hyprland are some kind of disgusted.
I just use KDE with dark breeze theme. That’s enough and nobody gets hurt.
Trueee Just get the job done and that’s all.
Can you elaborate? Why are people disgusted by Hyprland?
“Disgusted” was a fast choice for wording. They look confused. Someone told me he get a headache by the fast movings through the workspaces.
For explanation I use 3 or 4 workspaces with full max. Windows and switch through them with super + tab. And had this wiggle animation running, too. As an user it is really fancy but if you are watching, it could hurt.
I mean that sounds like a them problem. Why would your setup, your ergonomics be influenced by others?
Right now I’m stuck on a Mac laptop. I hate it, but after our Network team could not manage to get Global Protect working on Linux, and my boss decided keeping them happy was easier than keeping me productive, I didn’t have much choice (Mac or Windows). I’ve worked in environments before where I was able to run Linux on my laptop/workstation, so long as I was able to support myself and do the required work. I used remote desktop (Or a Windows VM) for my Windows work; my browser and Java for most everything else. Now even Office is a shitty webapp for the most part, and Teams “works” on Linux (As much as Teams works at all).
Even here, I have to wait until Helpdesk manages to build out support for new Mac OS releases, so I’m still on 14.6.
I told them prior that I would be leaving the company if they forced me to migrate to Mac. I’m currently looking for a better position elsewhere and will tell them exactly why when I turn in my notice. Not that it will change anything, it’ll help me feel better.
that’s odd, my (indirect, reported by others) experience with GlobalProtect on Linux was mostly fine, although when using SAML it only really works with the GUI version and not the CLI version
It’s not GP itself that’s he problem, it’s supposed to work on a few mainstream distris, but the Company admins responsible noped out. They had such a hard time making Windows and Mac work that they can’t be bothered for “a couple of Linux users”.
When I got into the company I was allowed to use Linux. But a few years ago the company was bought and merged with a much bigger company and the new IT policy made Windows mandatory.
I’m sorry for your loss.
Previous job: Windows, because it was a company issued laptop. Plus a lot of the company was built around the MS ecosystem.
Current job: Linux, because I got to keep the perfectly decent Dell laptop when I left. I wanted to make sure I purged everything, so it’s running LMDE now. Plus, there’s not much outlook and teams stuff that I have to use.
Great! However I think you are lucky one.
I manage the few linux servers at my company. I use a windows laptop to ssh to my servers. Windows for me is fine, but I do very little on it outside of ssh or emails. However, I would never use windows outside of this.
Simple so you probably fine with that. I do a lot of automation so besides using Microsoft Office I feel like I’m being heavy with everything.
That all makes sense. I would for sure be unhappy if I had to sue it for more than just remote connections.
Just let’s say using it for PuTTY is fine.
What are your experience?
My last “real” Windows experience was with WinXP and every time I have to touch Windows at the PC of a customer, which happens sometimes when the stars align, I feel like the first human that ever walked the earth.
I have no idea how people get any work done on a system that is constantly nagging for attention, popups, restrictive Enterprise environment and non descriptive error messages. Nothing in this world seems to make sense or is presented in a unified way. Every dialogue or sub system seems to be it’s own isle stemming from another decade of tech. The experience for someone who is simply not used to Windows any more due to missing exposure is horrible.
Heck a Mac feels alien to me too but in the end that’s still a system I could deal with given some time.
Mebbe I’m spoiled by stuff like systemd, PipeWire, Wayland, btrfs and all that candy we get nowadays on a Linux desktop. I’m not even talking about privacy or FOSS principles at this point. Just the fact that the system doesn’t get in my face with ads or AI or “very important reboots” seems to be a revelation in 2024.
That was me 2 years ago. Now, I am wondering how I got the work done until now on Win11. It just takes longer and compensation for overtime helps. And by compensation I don’t mean money; I get my time back, working less on other days.
I will ask for a 4 day workweek. Every day without Windows is a good day. (:
