All smartphones, including iPhones, must have replaceable batteries by 2027 in the EU::undefined
Thank fucking god for the EU, for fighting for global digital rights where nobody else does.
According to republicans Europe is hell on Earth tho
Anywhere that isn’t a fascist theocracy is hell on Earth to many republicans
It’s funny how many of them unironically praise the Taliban. At least, it’s funny from my perspective looking in. I’m sure for a fellow citizen that’s a scary thought.
I’m sure many places that are are still Hell because they aren’t majority white and not fascist enough.
mostly cuz EU gives rights and protections to consumers, not corporations
They’re still liberal and give a lot more to corporations than they do people.
And yet to us Americans, we see that the EU does a billion times more for its citizens and we wish our country could be half as good about the things the EU does right.
Grass is always greener…
Actually the Europeans I’ve talked to with a small couple of exceptions very much like their “welfare state” and mainly like America for its entertainment. They do not typically want to live here. I wish I could live in Europe badly
I mean I am European :D I wouldn’t wanna trade either. But there are definitely some people here who still believe in an American Dream or like the idea of earning more and spending less on taxes living in the US. Really depends who you ask.
I understand. Unless you’re lining billionaire pockets and actively hurting the poor, Republicans are PISSED
-for Republicans that is.
Fine by me. Nice and cozy 🤗
No wonder, while plenty right wing parties are on the rise here, too, overall people are at least somewhat less removed from actual reality.
We have a fake economy. All investments, researching and efforts could be decided by state (we/public). Protecting society interests and not “investors” interests is an obligation
Does this mean we could potentially order phones from there as US folks?
Doubt Apple will have 2 different devices for each area.
One sensible right doesn’t overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
And imo this is not a sensible right. To change a battery in phones is easy even now. All you need is heat gun (hairdryer), new battery, phone tape (2$ ali) and 30 mins of your time…
Also watter resistance will take a hit… I wouldn’t sink my phone under watter with detachable back cover even if it had ip68 by producer. They don’t even cover it in reclamation now.
Compare to how it used to be, removing the battery cover and replacing the battery on the fly. And water resistance with removable batteries has been and can be done. Stop with this nonsense.
One sensible right doesn’t overweight the never-ending bullshit coming from them.
True. Between the private healthcare, abortion rights, school shootings…
Oh wait, you weren’t talking about the US?
Apple in 2027: This is not a battery, it’s a…umm … Ultra High Density Low Current Super Capacitor.
EU: Ok, then in addition to that UHDLCSC you also need a removable battery.
Yay! Another dongle!
And apple consumers will celebrate it.
they’ll find a place to shove one of these
Introducing the UHDLCSC portable charger (which it technically a battery you can attach via USB-C-iLightningSpec©)
It might actually force them to develop inductively powered devices or some similar magic
I came across this insane opinion piece the other day: https://www.laptopmag.com/features/mind-eurown-business-for-the-sake-of-the-iphone-apple-needs-to-fight-back
It’s so surreal, it feels satirical
Say, “We at Apple, Think Different.” and refuse to be shepherded into the flock with the likes of the dirty android heathens. You can’t give in so easily. First, they’ll take your Lightning ports, then they’ll take your internal battery and IP68 rating, and before you know it, they’ll take your blue iMessage bubble too.
At that point, why even bother? You might as well throw a Qualcomm Snapdragon in the next iPhone and call it a day. Congratulations Apple, you have the best UI of any Android phone on the market.
What the actual fuck?
You swear this isn’t satire?
and before you know it, they’ll take your blue iMessage bubble too
Nobody tell this guy what the EU’s Digital Markets Act means for Apple and iMessage…
I haven’t heard of this. What does it mean?
Messaging services need to be interoperable.
I love how higher IP rating is always the argument, it looks like everybody in this planet is doing daily deep diving and needs its smartphone to do that 😅
Phones with IP67 or even IP68 exist with easily replaceable batteries.
My Galaxy XCover 6Pro has a removable battery (and headphone jack) and is ip68 rated
I have a Samsung Xcover (5, not 6) and this thing is such a breath of fresh air!
16:9 screen, audio jack, good USB-C, SD card, removable battery, physical shortcut button that’s programmable to anything, decent performance (some newer phone games like Genshin don’t run well, but emulated NDS games or Morrowind? Just fine!)
And this is SAMSUNG‽
Where’s the world going‽
You’d think they’d figure out a way to have those high IP ratings and have removable batteries (they have afaik)
Are you sure it isn’t satire? I prefer to believe it is.
I sure hope it’s satire, but that pun!
“Mind EUROwn business?” chef’s kiss
I… Couldn’t even make it through the whole article. Absolutely insane.
Man, Tim Apple sounds pissed.
Looking at this guy’s other articles, unfortunetly it does not feel as satire.
it feels satirical
That’s because it is satire.
All we need now is a headphone jack
We need SD cards more. They removed them so they can charge you 300 $ to upgrade 128gb and to force you into shitty cloud service.
Again, just anti consumer bullshit spearheaded by Apple and gargled by Samsung.
I have flashbacks to using external storage on Android. It was such a shit show of an API. That being said, external storage, to break away from cloud storage is the next needed thing. We need to own the data.
When you design an OS to pretend there’s no such thing as a file, it ends up being bad at handling files.
Yeah, even today, browsing through files on Android is a fucking mess. And there isn’t an SD card.
So the SD card wasn’t the problem
I was trying to figure out recently how do I copy files into application user data directory, it turns out you just can’t, lol.
You can with very basic root tools, but really that just solidifies your point. It’s an easy thing to do, but they’ve intentionally taken away the ability for no good reason
It’s perfectly fine on Sony Xperia.
Which did away with the headphone jack and asks €400 for crap performance.
Nah I’m sticking to my Samsung XCover
Xperia IV aren’t crap performance but they are 3x €400
It was the SOC that wasn’t great. Nothing to do with the manufacturers.
Mobile Linux seems to carry it really good
Again, just anti consumer bullshit spearheaded by Apple and gargled by Samsung.
Samsung was actually one of the later Android manufacturers to drop it is my recollection.
Yeh and fuck them
Agreed
Definitely. Never understood why some manufacturers removed jacks
I personally prefer my bluetooth headphones, but it’s not like bluetooth and jacks can’t exist on the same device…
Plus, pairing bluetooth in a car can be annoying as fuck. Looking at you, Nissan
I feel like BT pairing and functionality in cars has always been shit. I have issues in my 2020 Ford, had issues in my 2015 and 2018 bmws, and my gf has issues in her Toyota.
BT pairing in our Ram works fine, and it works fine with the aftermarket Pioneer radio in my car. I’ve never had a major issue with either one with any phone I’ve owned, iPhone or Android.
For our Mazda, though, BT pairing does not work reliably with my Samsung S21 - it’s okay for phone calls (in fact, the car “steals” my calls if I’m on the phone at home and my wife gets home with the car), but for music it almost never works correctly, unless I’m also using Android Auto, which is rare because I just don’t need it for most day-to-day drives. The BT phone and music works fine for my wife’s iPhone, though.
I blame the car - my phone works just fine with several sets of Bluetooth headsets, and the other two car stereos. I think Mazda just didn’t bother to do any debugging before they shipped that piece of shit to the dealers. (This theory is based on other bugs we’ve found in the infotainment system as well.)
Because they do the bare minimum to meet the spec so that they could advertise it then. They still do the bare minimum now.
Yeah I want a headphone jack, but the truth is that I can’t remember the last time I used mine. I have an old phone plugged into an old amp that I can play Spotify through, otherwise I use bt.
Yeah, they could coexist. I’m partial to non-bluetooth, but only because they come in shapes that I find more comfortable, and I’ve yet to find bluetooth ones that don’t make my ears hurt
You know there’s ways you can change that, right? There’s different sizes you can get for the piece that goes in your ear and they often come with the headphones/ear buds.
Yes, I just haven’t found any that I found comfortable with yet
Money from selling true wireless earbuds was too enticing. Even Fairphone made them and removed headphone jack and spat nonsense that it was a “point of failure.”
The argument was saving space for other parts. That’s true in a way. But if things needed we should have this space. What’s next? Saving the space of the charger? /s
Headphone jacks are a 19th century invention, if having them restricts innovation then I am all for removing them.
We can’t only consider innovation today, we also have to consider its ecological impact. Jack plugs and headphones are way more durable than Bluetooth equivalent. I have 16 yo jack headset that still works perfectly, I only had to change the cushions twice.
It’s specifically the wire that always breaks first. How can they be more durable?
You can repair a broken cable fairly easily.
When you buy wireless headphones you know upfront that they will die within a few years and you will not be able to replace the tiny glued in, oddly shaped batteries they come with.
I like the convenience of BT at times, but I really miss having headphone jacks and hate having to bring adaptors with me.
If you can financially, buy (second-hand) higher-end material, it will come with stronger wires and stronger connections.
For example, see the difference in the constraints damper on these connectors:
vs Apple’s:
Jack being simple technology, it’s also very easy to get it repaired by the nearby tech enthusiast armed with a soldering iron.
To add to that, many IEMs (and many other headphones too probably) come with removable cables.
So stop making any technological advancement because of the potential impact of e-waste? Not saying it’s a bad thing but it will have have its own environmental implications. No new energy development, we have to rely on existing oil and nuclear technology rather than investing in making renewable energy sources cheaper and more efficient.
It’s not an either-or situation, we can do both at the same time, we just have to consider environmental impact as an essential component of innovation.
At the point we are at, yes we have to make a major change, e-waste is an immense problem for many years and we are only starting to fight it.
Inventions not thinking about e-waste at all shouldn’t be allowed anymore.
So are speakers and batteries.
True, but we don’t have any practical alternatives for them.
What’s the practical alternative to headphone jacks? Bluetooth is crap and carrying around extra dongles is annoying.
Bluetooth headphones are more practical due to not having wires. Jack is better for latency.
Practical for some scenarios, but impractical in others. A headphone jack also offers better sound quality overall and a less flaky connection, with no audio cutouts. It’s not just latency, it’s a superior and more reliable way to transmit high quality audio. And there’s no battery to worry about charging. And a standard set of wired headphones can last for DECADES while a Bluetooth headset will start to die in about five years or less because the battery is non-replaceable lithium-ion. And there’s no concern about whether your wired headphones are optimized for Android or iPhone, it’s a standardized connector with an identical experience on both. And there’s no issue with wireless interference on the 2.4GHz band that Bluetooth operates on.
I can come up with more if you want.
Technically 20th century, if I’m not mistaken? I just don’t see how they would restrict innovation, I guess
Apparently it’s based on a plug invented in 1878, according to the BBC.
Interesting! It’s cool to know how stuff we use/used was developed
By that logic let’s just replace the most superior household plug. The 3 pin UK plug.
A “19th century” technology that objectively produces better sound quality and uses less energy. And I already have wired earbuds and headsets.
Unless there’s an alternative, no it’s not restricting innovation.
I’d be almost ready to say that we don’t need them any more if Bluetooth headphones were about 100x better and cheaper
At the same time, wired earphones/headphones are already just as good with a lot less parts/complexity.
You don’t need batteries, radios, and chips for coding/decoding a signal coming out of a headphone jack. You can just plumb it straight into the speakers. No need to mess with controls and all of that, which would make them a lot cheaper.
Don’t forget how new Bluetooth headphones require that you download an app to set up the headphone. So a whole new data harvesting broker forces itself right where an audiojack used to be.
Check on the AppStore’s the kind of personal data one has to handover to tune the headphones. Total fuckery!
Still too much lag. I love my QC45s, but there’s still just enough lag to bother me
Bluetooth 5+ definitely made wired headphones obsolete for me.
But now you have to charge two things rather than one. Some people would prefer not to have to do that.
Bluetooth headphones are solid now, as long as you have something that supports aptx HD and LL (HD for music, LL for movies/games). But yeah they’re not cheap.
Can’t imagine that getting mandated unfortunately
The fact that some of the gen Z crowd think it will be horrible have forgotten that it was much easier to carry 2 batteries and swap them out vs carrying a charger and cable with you everywhere. Pop in the new battery, power it on and carry on with you now full battery phone. Being tethered to a wall so you can have 10% from 20 minutes of charging is crazy.
Don’t forget the option to carry a 30lb battery bank everywhere with you so you’re at least tethered to something marginally more movable than a wall.
Seriously though, I miss my phone+battery in one charger and the ability to restart with full battery at around 4pm.
I know you are intentionally exaggerating a bit, but they do make pretty small portable chargers. I have an Anker PowerCore 5000, it has 1-2 full charges depending on your phone, and easily fits in a pocket
Yeah, definitely joking. Mine is 24,000 mAh and weigh less than 1.5lb allegedly.
I used to do this. I thought it was awesome but I was literally the only person I ever knew who did this. It was not a popular thing to do.
Zero lemon had them so cheap that I had 4 extra batteries (they also had the extended batteries that would last forever but the cases were janky). I would keep one at work, one by the door to take with me and two at home if you include the one in my phone that I would swap out. I rarely charged my phone at all, just the batteries. I loved it.
Most people did not do this nor needed to since the very beginning of cell phones
We literally do not need replaceable batteries in 2023
Maybe, but you have to admit that battery live used to be longer (specially pre-smartphones), if your phone could comfortably last a couple of days there was less need to have portable power.
I fondly remember the convenience of having a flat, replaceable battery in my pocket even in the early Android days, and I’ve missed it ever since it went away.
The main reason I’m thinking of upgrading my mid-range phone now is the battery is on its last legs.
In fairness it’s lasted 6 years, which is two years more than my Nexus 4 got. Pokemon Go eventually killed that.
I don’t know when we all just collectively accepted that batteries should last one day and not a second more. Sure, it’s doing more than a Nokia 3310 ever did, but sometimes you really do need it to last more than that, like when travelling.
I’d much rather just have a bigger battery. Replacement is more useful for longevity for me.
You’re not going to get a bigger battery though. Battery size is a pretty much maxed out, the only way to make a battery bigger would be to make the battery physically bigger. This would make the phone bigger / heavier. So it’s not going to happen.
If you are waiting on some magic new battery chemistry it’ll come along eventually but you’ll be waiting a while, and stubbornly not having a replaceable battery in the meantime isn’t going to make any difference.
There’s some huge battery breakthroughs going on right now. You’re right though, I would give it another 5 or so before they’re widespread among phones.
What is this sorcery? Wouldn’t this cause issues with internal clock and stuff?
It will also likely mean easier repairs. Louis Rossman just did a video on this
This. People read this and think about the removable batteries of Nokia bricks and plastic hardshells, but this would really hamper with IP68 rating. It probably just means the users must be able to replace the battery themselves, instead of artificially locking it down with DRM. And maybe provide some documentation. Otherwise phones would become so much worse, than they have been for more than a decade.
Louis was saying ‘Does everyone have collective amnesia?? We had IP68 phones with removable batteries already!’
I only remember the Samsung rugged ones, which do not look great. Some compromise will be needed to get removable batteries into phones. Compromises the buyer of a gold iPhone Pro Max to flex their wealth won’t appreciate. Not DRMing batteries and giving users access to documentation and tools for replacing the battery requires almost no compromise from no one (except a tiny dent in Apple‘s balance sheet, which they will recover from, I’m sure).
The Samsung galaxy S5 were IP67 rated with removable battery.
They also featured optional wireless charging, despite you being able to pop open the back and replace the battery.
And was one of the least successful S series phones.
It’s NOT just phones.
It’s EVERYTHING with a battery. Including cars, laptops, e-bikes, video game controllers, headphones etc. (im not even sure if there are exceptions, such as tiny tiny “airpod” like things… ?)
And they must be (with a few exceptions) replacable by a “layman”, without the use of special tools - which means no heat pads, to soften up glue etc etc. (and for gods sake, i hope it also means apple can’t hardwareID lock a battery)
an exception mentioned in the EU document about the law says, high power batteries for example in an electric car, must be done by a profesional - but of course it still has to be “replacable” and not… tear the whole car apart and rebuild it using new batteries.
replacable batteries in headphones, bluetooth mice, laptops etc, is gonna be awesome.
and lets not forget, they have to recycle the old ones - and produce new batteries using recycled materials.
in fact, i will try to hold on replacing my current (2 year old) phone, and wait to get one before 2027. Usually the battery turns to shit in 3ish years.
Stand back everyone, I’m going to attempt nuance.
Industrial design is about tradeoffs. Making the battery easily replaceable will come with drawbacks. Maybe it’ll be size, or water resistance, or durability, but something will have to be compromised. The extent of the compromises remains to be seen, and people will have different opinions about whether it’s worth it.
Ordinarily I’m not a fan of regulators making product design decisions, because that’s exactly the kind of thing market forces are supposed to be good at. In this case, though, there’s a demand that’s clearly not being met, and companies clearly have a vested interest in pushing consumers toward replacing their old hardware rather than repairing it, which creates externalities markets are unable to account for. Market failures like this are exactly the kind of situation where government regulation is needed.
Coming soon from Apple. Screws that require a 4D tesseract shaped screwdriver to undo.
But if you can undo them, feel free to change the battery.
The EU defines user replaceable as you can remove the batteries with common tools. Common tools is defined as a Phillips or flathead screwdriver. So even Nintendo and their stupid try-force screw thing won’t be acceptable.
If that’s really the definition, it’s an awful definition and exactly why we shouldn’t regulate stuff like this. Torx are objectively better than Philips or flathead in every possible way.
As long as the tool isn’t proprietary it’s acceptable. If I can go to a hardware store and buy the interface tool then it’s fine, but it’s not fine if I have to get it from a special manufacturer or if it’s proprietary.
In the case of Nintendo I gave; Nintendo have their proprietary tri-headed screw. They do not make The tri-headed screwdriver publicly available, of course companies have copied them and so you can get one that way, but they’re not official, so my understanding is that that would not be acceptable. Nintendo would have to officially release the tri-headed screw design, and they’re probably just more likely to switch to a different already public screw design.
I also think they are allowed to just glue the batteries in as long as they have pull tabs. Which is probably the better option.
My point is Apple won’t be allowed to just come up with some brand new screw design that no one else has ever seen before. Unless they open source the screw head. In which case I guess it doesn’t matter. But they’re not going to do that because there would be no point.
That’s the reason I bought a set of screwdrivers for apple and there was also the tri-headed included. It was just 5 bucks and I am really happy with them.
Anyway, I just hope they go further in their law like a replacement without any screws. Why not just use the way a laptop battery will be changed? Just click it out easy.
Well if you broaden the definition that much, then it sounds like iPhone batteries are already user replaceable since I can easily purchase the necessary tools from iFixIt.
Again, this is not official. Just because somebody has grogged a way too interface with their proprietary screw heads doesn’t mean that the design is public domain, and the requirement is that the tool set is public domain. Apple’s screw heads are not better than Phillips heads so they’re only doing it to be awkward that’s the point, they’re not allowed to do that anymore. So just because you can technically get the screwdrivers doesn’t make it acceptable.
You’re acting like I’m being unreasonable I’m just telling you what the law is it’s not my fault you haven’t read up on it
It’s pre-drilled holes and small screws, Phillips is perfectly fine.
Most batteries are currently held in with some sticky glue, so I’m sure 4 random off the shelf screws would be sufficient. We’re not mounting plasma screen TVs to plasterboard here.
As someone who works with small electronics, Phillips is NOT perfectly fine at small sizes. Below a PH1, the torque required to unscrew a long thread and the torque required to cam-out and strip the head get very close together.
I agree that Torx might be better for things that require a lot of torque, but mobile phones?
I just stripped half the screw head in my steam deck because none of my bits would fit just exactly right. I’d have been thrilled about finding torx there.
Ahh yes, screws that can only be unscrewed using The Force
I’m sure apple will happily sell you the proprietary tool to turn their proprietary screws for a very reasonable price.
They’re not allowed to do that. The tool design has to be freely available for any manufacturer to fabricate free of charge, they’re not allowed to try and use this as a profit making exercise.
I don’t know why it is that every single time the EU comes up with a law there’s always people in the comments that say it’s a bad law and that they haven’t thought it out, when they’ve not read the documentation. All of the little tricks that the companies might come up with to turn this to their advantage have already being thought of and protected against. This is exactly what happened with the mandating the USB-C port.
Exactly, the law definitely defines that the tools have to be commonly available with no restrictions or proprietary rights, and that any tools that don’t fit under that definition must be provided free of charge. It also lists a few practices that are outright banned regardless of availability, like needing thermal or chemical tools. They’ve been very thorough.
Laws being made in good faith and corporations taking advantage of ambiguities or loopholes for “compliance” has been the staple of western corporate lore. I’m sure many of those commenters would love replaceable batteries with usb-c port on their phones too.
Sure but if anybody clicks through to read the article they can see the full wording of the law. It goes on for pages and pages it’s far from ambiguous. This isn’t just something they thought above on a random Friday afternoon this is something that’s been worked on for a few years now.
Yes, but then there’s this decades-long tradition of Lemmy/Reddit/Digg/Slashdot/etc users not reading the actual article and comment based only from headlines often crafted to maximize engagement.
My current device and the two before that all have had removable batteries. I’ve always thought built in batteries are stupid and it’s nice to finally notice that other people agree. Hopefully they next mandate that it has to be able to be taken apart with a screwdriver and spare parts must be able to be purchased straight from the manufacturer.
Ya the only reason I get new phones is because the battery gets too weak. I could easily keep the same device for 5+ years if I could swap batteries
The only reason I get new phones is cos OS updates stop flowing. That happens way before I notice any battery degradation. This law solves nothing.
I’m an android guy but you can solve that problem by going iPhone if so inclined
Really? How long does Apple support iPhones?
Samsung and Google support their current generation phones for five years. Apple supports theirs for seven years from when they’re last sold.
3 Major OS updates, 5 years of security patches
Wow that’s a big plus for apple that I never knew about. Thanks!
I’m not sure but a lot longer than android
The fact is I prefer Android when it comes to phones.
You can. It cost $15 every three years to have someone replace the battery for you or you can spend the hour doing it yourself.
On a pixel phone?
Yes. $15 and an hour. You can bring in your own battery or pay ~$60 USD for an official one. It’s all very easy.
This law won’t change shit. People are still going to dump their phone every 2 year.
Hopefully they next mandate that it has to be able to be taken apart with a screwdriver
It does include that, mostly. It says that any tools that aren’t commonly available without proprietary rights or restrictions (i.e. screwdrivers) have to be provided by the manufacturers free of charge
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery. I’ll need to change my battery maybe once every 3 years, but I need to know it can handle moisture far more often than that.
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery
You can have both. My Galaxy XCover 6Pro is ip68 rated.
The another benefit with removable batteries is that if you have two you can go from 0 to 100% charge in about a minute.
This is why I want replaceable batteries in small EVs like bikes and such, too.
And why I have thought for a while that it would be nice to have maybe 30% or so of electric car batteries be replacable with a moderately large rack in the “frunk” or trunk. But that’s just me.
Most of the ebikes and motor scooters I’ve seen have removable batteries. Gogoro in India even has a battery swapping network for their scooters.
Gogoro’s existence is kinda bittersweet, it shows that it’s possible, but that companies aren’t willing to standardize and cooperate to make it the status quo and actually possible to build swap stations for globally, of even across just Europe.
Ideally I’d want to see a plan where an e-bike or electric kickscooter takes one or two, and motorcycles take a few more. Idk if you could make batteries in that form-factor and put 12 or so into a car to gain enough miles to make a difference. Perhaps eventually, if we get the energy density gains we’re hoping for.
Car-wise, I have no expectation that the industry will shift towards low weight and drag like Aptera is pushing for, so I don’t expect efficiency gains that way.
This isn’t a replacement, but I have said for years now that someone needs to market a rentable tow-behind or rooftop battery sort of like U-Hauls for extra capacity needed for longer trips.
People have tried it. The extra drag of a trailer or roof box consumes most of the extra energy that they carry.
Can be done with screws and rubber seal, no need for glue and glass.
I prefer ip68 to easily accessible battery.
All it needs is that little rubber band, and you have to handle it carefully when closing the lid.
Psst those Brands are not your friends and might lie about their reasons to make batteries non-removable.
I have a handheld marine vhf radio with a removable battery that I can throw in the ocean and it will work and continue to work for days. Don’t believe the bs the manufacturers tell you.
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*batterie exists out of two parts. One of them is fused to the screen.
Pesky EU throwing their weight around giving consumers more rights! --Brexiteer logic
Oh well hopefully we’ll (UK) still benefit from it. Easier to design one phone than “EU” and “Rest of world” versions after all.
Honestly good. Usb C is so good.
I have a couple of 100w chargers around the house, no messing about can charge nearly everything at full speed.
Can’t want to be able to buy used phone and just pop in new battery. Still we need a law to allow easier mobile operating systems development for third-parties.
They should also demand unlocked boot loaders and open drivers for all devices. That or steep penalties if they don’t support the devices for at least 10 years. We should have manuals and specifications for every component, really. We really need to reduce waste.
