Alleged prospective sex buyers in this scheme first had to respond to a survey and provide information online, including their driver’s license photos, their employer information, credit card information, and they often paid a monthly fee to be part of this.”
Wait, what? (͡•_ ͡• )
That should make the prosecutors jobs much easier.
Wow, imagine willingly providing that information to what you know is a criminal organization. The people who signed up are obviously a major security hazard to whoever they work for.
Yeah. This is the real issue here.
Sex work should be legal and the morality discussion here is about people lying to their spouses and if anybody is being forced into sex work… all interesting topics.
But anybody implicated in this situation needs all security clearances and access dropped because they are high risk morons.
It’s signing up to a blackmail scheme.
…to get your dick wet
Oh, well in that case will you need me to provide my clearance number as well?
Obviously it’s the sex workers that are going to jail for this, for tricking all these high level citizens.
100%. I wouldn’t even give all that information to my online pharmacist and I need some of those medications to survive.
Yeah my employer don’t need to know fuckall about what meds I’m on.
Seriously. How dumb do you need to be to be in an actual high ranking (government) position and willingly give up all that info to an even slightly shady organisation? Never mind an illegal prostitution network you are sure is both illegal and easily blackmailable.
Say something is exclusive and idiots will do anything to get in.
Facebook got so huge because at first you had to be in college to be on it. After a couple years they opened it up to everyone and pretty much everyone signed up.
Doesn’t always work. See Google+.
how horny*
The ease of prosecuting is directly proportional to how wealthy and influential the accused is.
Remember, it’s a legal system … not a justice system … you can easily distinguish the difference by how wealthy you are (or are not)
Sad but true
Could be a honey pot. Either the guys running it wanted to use the info to blackmail the clientele or sell the info to foreign intelligence
Or they use it for further identity fraud to open new locations.
I’m guessing it was that one P411 website or whatever. That site has been in the news in the past. It baffles me that people would willingly comply with such invasive identification requirements for something that’s illegal. I get the idea behind it is to try and prove that you’re not a cop/murdery type of criminal in order to protect the sex workers, but… yeah, lol.
Not really, because the people who made the survey are probably smart enough to not include anything about exchanging money for sex. Basically, there’s nothing illegal about filling out a survey about who you are and what are your likes or dislikes. There’s also nothing illegal for someone to pay another person for their time.
So no mention of exchanging money for sex and it’s incredibly hard to prosecute.
No idea if you’re right or not but that’s not what I meant. I meant they don’t have to hunt down the johns, the johns already provided all the possible info the prosecutors would need to find them.
How exactly does that help? It’s not like they are going to do stake outs on these guys. It’s not enough probable cause for any type of warrant or anything.
It would help support a case if you already had one, but as an entry point it’s all but completely useless, if not actually completely useless.
Which is why they won’t release the names, because doing so would open them up to lawsuits. All risk no reward.
I think what the person above was implying is that having your name on that list is not de-facto evidence of participation. I’m sure the DOJ has more than just that one piece of evidence if they’ve already made arrests, because sex workers in America are nothing if not extremely careful about how they conduct their business to avoid exposing themselves or their clients to law enforcement stings.
Hell, if they’re actually smart, they have red herrings in the list that muddies who is actually a client
Are Johns (and sex workers) even worth prosecuting? I think the DOJ is interested in a organized prostitution ring and it’s leaders, involved in conspiracy and money laundering, not a few dudes paying for (adult) sex.
I don’t think they’ll waste their time.
Criminals and criminals masquerading as religions love to get blackmail on their clientele/members, it’s probably the more lucrative part of their enterprise, and it keeps those members/clientele loyal, because who wants their nasty ass secrets leaked out or sold to their enemies?
None of that’s illegal, aside from the card info it’s actually a lot of the things a trustworthy sex worker will be asking you for as a background check before agreeing to meet you.
honeypot
Why is sex work even illegal in the first place.
Selling is legal, fucking is legal, why isn’t selling fucking legal?
– George Carlin
Seas he also the fella that said “Getting paid for sex is illegal… UNLESS YOU RECORD IT!”
For years I’ve contemplated the idea if I came into a bunch of money if starting a porn studio where the customer is an actor/actress in the porn.
We have a building and several “sets” with cameras recording, customer picks their “partner” and “set” and “shoot the porn”, after they are done the video is burned on to a dvd(or blue ray or potentially put on a private file server).
The customer isn’t paying for sex, they are paying for the video.
Pretty sure it would have a ton of legal push back and I would need a lot of money for the lawyers to fight the cases.
But 1. Safer for everyone imvolved(it’s video taped so you won’t beat/hurt/kill the other party) 2.technically legal just like shooting porn
This is actually a great idea for couples! The issue of course would be to make sure that the couples are actual couples.
You could have them sign a release indicating that it’s a “photo studio”, and you can have different prices: one for commercial use ($5,000 per hour) and one for private use ($100 an hour, and you’re not allowed to commercially distribute the DVD.)
The underlying assumption is the same as in abortion: that women can’t be entrusted with agency over their own bodies.
Because one of the biggest issues with sex work, human trafficking, gets worse with legalization. Studies across Europe have shown that countries that outlaw prostitution see a decrease in human trafficking victims while countries that legalized or decriminalized it see an increase.
Unlike with drugs, you don’t just create a way to increase the supply. A very small minority of women actually want to engage in sex work. And the few who do, usually envision the high class escort lifestyle. But working in a brothel charging $100 per client isn’t something many want to do.
But legalizing prostitution increases demand. Which makes it more profitable for criminals to utilize human trafficking to fill that demand.
https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/
One source of it.
It also doesn’t help at all with protecting victims of human trafficking. Victims of human trafficking are already protected. But they don’t step forward because of threats against their own well being and that of their families. Something that doesn’t change just because their work technically is legal now.
Which leaves a small percentage of people who fall into financial hardship and consider prostitution as a method of overcoming said hardship. For them that might slightly improve their situation. But that still means exploiting vulnerable people and isn’t people engaging in sex work because they want to. And it’s even questionable if people in these scenarios would follow the legal way.
So while initially it might seem like legalizing it solves a lot of issues, it is more difficult than that.
Us laws regarding sex work are firmly based in puritanical values not out of any concern whatsoever regarding trafficking.
Thanks for the data. I think the issue here is not that legal prostitution creates problems, but rather the government bodies being incompetent at protecting the victims, then.
There are other industries in which people “sell their bodies” for profit (the military and construction come to mind), and if those can be quite regulated, why can’t prostitution?
We all sell our bodies for profit. To be fair though, wage theft is the most common form of theft. We’re all prostitutes and we’re almost all being taken advantage of, and we’re in a system where we can’t really get out.
government bodies being incompetent at protecting the victims, then.
My guess is that it’s just more difficult to control prostitution than it is to control construction work. Construction happens in the open, you need to get tons of permits, multiple companies are involved, inspectors check everything regularly. It would be difficult to force some people to work on a construction site without anyone realizing. But how are you going to make sure that each sexual intercourse in some strip bar is ‘legal’? Are you going to put inspectors in bathroom stalls? How can you check every cash transaction? It’s pretty much impossible. You can monitor the sex work that’s advertised and happening ‘in the open’ but there will always be some grey and black market for it. And the ugly stuff will happen there.
I reckon that even though sex work is legalised, and still caused issues, the problem is that there is no government regulation. It’s one thing to say by the government that they won’t prosecute sex workers, but if it’s not regulated and abuse still happens then nothing changed for all intents and purposes. Best analogy I could think of is like allowing food factories to manufacture food, of course. But if there is no regulatory watchdog to monitor and test to make sure food factories are not putting random and dangerous stuff into food, then legalising an activity is pointless.
Basically, the sex industry having been legalised by many countries is unofficially a libertarian set up. Yeah, the government exists and allow sexual transactions between agreeing parties, but they’re hands off on how the practitioners in the industry would conduct business. There is no government agency for sex workers to complain to if they’re abused. I know people would ask, how exactly would the government regulate sex? That, I will leave to policy experts.
Edit: wording
Because one of the biggest issues with sex work, human trafficking, gets worse with legalization.
Yes, because legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps. It’s very easy to see an (alleged) “rise in sex trafficking” when the legalization shuffle allows politicians to all of a sudden decide what is “allowed” sex work and what is “sex trafficking.”
This is why shitty studies like the one you linked is so thoroughly non-credible - it was performed without the input of the people who actually know what they are talking about - ie, sex workers themselves.
What the fuck are you talking about?
legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps
So what’s the solution?? You just made random assertions without any sources and didn’t suggest any alternatives. All while skimming over the very real trafficking/coersion problems unique to sex work.
I was totally onboard with them but the longer they talk the weirder the takes get.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Do tell… is this the first time you’ve actually considered what sex workers themselves have to say about (so-called) “legalization?”
None of this is a secret, Clyde.
unique to sex work.
ROFLMAO! No, genius… trafficking is not unique to sex work in any way, shape, or form. If you weren’t filled to the brim with anti-sex work hysteria you’d have known that already.
Do tell… is this the first time you’ve actually considered what sex workers themselves have to say about (so-called) “legalization?”
The sex workers with those opinions usually are the already more well off workers who perform escort or cam services, and isn’t reflective of the bottom strata of sex worker experiences. It also doesn’t address how more common sex work leads to higher trafficking rates.
trafficking is not unique to sex work in any way, shape, or form.
Lol I’d love any source on this whatsoever. I’m not sure how you defend this line of thought, or why you feel this way. You don’t think human trafficking shares any of the same risk factors or conditions as sex work?
ROFLMAO!
LOLCOPTER
and isn’t reflective of the bottom strata of sex worker experiences.
You’re going to have to do a whole lot better than hiding behind impoverished people.
It also doesn’t address how more common sex work leads to higher trafficking rates.
That has already been explained to you.
Lol I’d love any source on this whatsoever.
You need a source to tell you that labor and refugee trafficking is a thing?
I’m not sure how you defend this line of thought,
It’s really simple… I have no wish to demonize and criminalize sex workers - unlike you.
My bet is on America’s conservative puritan history where anything good is bad.
Also sex trafficking. At least that’s the argument for keeping it illegal. :(
I believe the reason sex trafficking happens is because sex work is illegal.
Which is bollocks anyways because illegalization actually makes things less safe for all sex workers, but especially for trafficking victims who are now legally marginalized into dark number status
Old white men elected themselves under the guise of voting (gerrymandering who?) and are too embarrassed and confused to allow women the rights they have as humans. Isn’t democracy silly.
Puritan values.
I’d say the diagram of “Why is sex work illegal” and “Why is abortion illegal” is almost a perfect circle.
It’s about contolling other peoples’ bodies and weakening the separation of church and state.
Sex work differs from most other type of work in one very significant way - it’s an industry in which capitalists cannot really control the means of production unless slavery (ie, a person can become the private property of another) is legalized and institutionalized. In other words, a sex worker - for the most part - is not as easily coerced into selling their labor to capitalists like most workers can be, and capitalists hate when people have a way to opt out of being hosts for their parasitism.
Sex work also has a way of subverting patriarchal norms upon which the status quo rests.
This is not to say that sex work is automatically a revolutionary, anti-capitalist or even “empowering” thing by itself - there are plenty of ways in which our socio-economic systems allows and enables de facto slavery without calling it slavery - but it certainly doesn’t fit into the neat class hierarchy that capitalists wants society to be trapped within.
You’re reading too much into it. The primary reason is puritan values. To be fair, the taboo on promiscuity is likely due to the lack of contraceptives and risks of getting sexually transmitted diseases. But access to contraceptives and education would lessen the risks these days. Though people are still creatures of habits so sex and sex work are still taboo for many without questioning why it has been in the first place.
You’re reading too much into it.
No, I’m not… in fact, I’m not even scratching the surface.
Sex work also has a way of subverting patriarchal norms upon which the status quo rests.
cough, what? No, it reinforces those norms. Men in power get to have women at their beck and call.
This isn’t a capitalist thing. Just look at how profitable the sex industry is in Nevada.
It’s a “holier than thou” thing that we just haven’t been able to get rid of in our society.
As much as I like calling out greed for what it is, this simply isn’t one of those cases.
cough, what?
You read correctly the first time. It’s a lot more difficult to entrap sex workers in patriarchal hierarchies than a housewife (for instance)… this should not be too difficult to understand.
This isn’t a capitalist thing.
All sex work in the world today exists under a capitalist mode of production - as far as I can tell, there is (officially, at least) no such thing as “publicly-funded” sex work… and that is unfortunate.
Yikes.
as far as I can tell, there is (officially, at least) no such thing as “publicly-funded” sex work… and that is unfortunate.
You lost me.
Due to both criminalization and demonization, sex workers are prevented from performing very necessary work in our society - such as being the only people that are qualified to perform sex education, for instance - so yes… it is quite unfortunate that sex work cannot be performed as a service to the public.
Sex education is more about the changes your body goes through during puberty as well as how reproduction works. None of that is related to sex work. Sex work is about making people feel good.
Sex education is more about the changes your body goes through during puberty as well as how reproduction works.
That’s basic biology - not sex education. The fact that you can’t even discern the difference proves the point.
Wait till you learn that you can be self employed outside of sex work.
For the most parts its just christian morality still ingrained in our society.
Wait till you learn that you can be self employed outside of sex work.
Yes, the homeless people trying to sell me trinkets at the intersection certainly seems to prove your point.
The only self employed people you can think of are homeless dudes selling trinkets and prostitutes?
The vast majority of “self-employed” people are utterly impoverished people doing survival work, Clyde - please tell me you don’t buy into the “entrepreneurship” fairy tales Reagan and Thatcher spooned into your parents’ brains through the telly back in the 80s. If you believed that, you might just as well believe in magic glass slippers that grants royalty.
You are confusing being self employed with gig economy bullshit. There are a lot of fields of occupation where being self employed makes sense und gives you more freedom. By the way - I’m talking from own experience being self employed fore quite some time now.
AFAIK, it’s not federally illegal, but mostly every state bans it. As how Nevada can have prostitution.
woke af
What does woke even mean?
It means staying awake, staying aware and thinking, not sleepwalking through life.
Implies the use of critical thinking. No wonder they hate it.
I have an MSc from a top UK university, my dissertation topic was labour abuse and work-related harm for which I received a distinction. I’m no puritan, but genuine “sex work” (outside the internet) is overwhelmingly negative for the actual workers and very few enter the industry from a position of personal or economic empowerment. This is the case to a shocking degree, even where it’s decriminalised. I’m not against it, per se, but it confuses me when people are strongly for it. So yeah, stay woke.
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Goodness knows.
I’m assuming they’re arresting the sex workers and not the politicians and military officials?
Hopefully neither, and they’ll arrest the organizers/pimps/etc.
sex workers and clients should be the lowest priority.
You know what they say about hoping, you can hope in one hand and bang an escort in the other hand and see which hand fills up quicker.
My hand hurts
*hands
My hand hands
3 individuals sounds like just the pimps.
They’d probably have to confirm identities to arrest those folks, and also prove they aren’t just getting name-dropped.
Just grabbing the pimps and workers is a lot easier and less case intense
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Decriminalize sex work
Legalize.
Both.
Goodbye.
The Ouija board system has gotten real weird.
Ask Again Later
Except for Lady G.
I don’t give a shit what he does in his personal life. No one should. I care that he’s a bastards who’s fucked this nation for his own self interest.
Anybody remember that one piece about our servicemen being involved in trafficking women overseas about three years ago that was swept under the rug?
I only remember the rug as I’m supposed to.
To be fair, it did really tie the room together.
Smh someone says “One Piece” and you show up in the same thread. Pirates are of one mind, I tell you.
Customers are not named in the affidavit, according to the agent, because
the investigation into their involvement is “active and ongoing.”these are the type of people who don’t get held accountable, ever.Accountable for what? Something that should be legal in the first place?
Do you also think marijuana users should be named and shamed?
It should be legal but it’s not. Those are government officials with clearances which put up their Driver’s licenses and credit card information on an illegal site to bang hookers. That’s the issue.
The “name and shame” argument is also meaningless. Take marijuana for example. If you’re a government official who is actively pushing for legalization and it comes up that you actually consume it… ok? Big news, you’re putting your mouth where your money is. Nobody cares, there’s no “shame” in being “named”. The issue comes when people are publicly against marijuana/prostitution and then engage in it. Those are hypocrites and should be shamed.
Heyo, I’m a heavy smoker!
Or, you know, they don’t have any evidence that a crime actually was committed. These people aren’t morons and know that unless they are caught exchanging money for sex they are off the hook. The fact that they have their name in this group is not even remotely enough to even charge someone with a crime, let alone get a conviction.
I’m sure they’ll be arresting and charging the politicians any and revoking security clearances any moment now…
Why would they revoke their security clearance?
Doing illegal stuff provides leverage for others to blackmail you to do more illegal stuff, like disclose state secrets
Ah, yes, 4-star generals in Procurement retiring to gold-plated consulting gigs in the very companies from which they ordered $1000 paper clips and congressional members using insider info from some congressional comission or other they’re in for trading on their portfolios is all fine, it’s paying for sex that’s the real problem with holders of high level official positions in America.
The bribery potential of those officials violating the laws they’re publicly supporting is the problem.
No such problem were paying for sex is legal.
Hoover amassed significant power by collecting files containing large amounts of compromising and potentially embarrassing information on many powerful people, especially politicians.
“It sure would be unfortunate if someone was to send pictures to the family, bosses and the media.”
The potential for being compromised and coerced into overlooking a few budget items is one path to this graft.
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I really don’t understand the way the US works in regards to „bought“ sex… on the one hand prostitution is illegal (with the exception of
Las Vegasparts of Nevada) and as soon as you point a camera on the paid fucking it is called PORN and it is still a multi billion dollar industry.You guys are weird
Edit: changed the Las Vegas part
Prostitution isn’t legal in Vegas. Parts of Nevada yes, but in Clark county where Las Vegas is located prostitution is illegal.
That’s more insane than what the original comment pointed out.
It’s very bizarre. Kinda shocking the gov’t hasn’t figured out the massive amount of tax revenue behind the legalization of sex workers.
Works in other countries at least. Here in Germany they just pay income tax, like everyone else. Actually they are freelancers usually…
On the other hand, Germany is still a bit backwards regarding cannabis legalization… but we are working on it.
Illegal income is taxed, technically, but paying that tax would also basically be a confession. That’s how they got mobsters back in the day. So there ends up not being any when you’re right and there absolutely could be good tax revenue there
Hell, it’s not federally banned, so it’s just states not being willing.
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It started a few centuries ago when this annoying group of people known as Puritans were expelled from their home country and sailed to north America.
The natives saved them from starvation and today still impose their beliefs and values on everybody. These hypocritical laws is but one example
They were not expelled from anywhere. They wanted to impose their religious doctrine on everyone else but every government keep telling them to fuck off.
The Puritans were a small sect, just looking for the religious freedom to punish the best majority of people who didn’t believe the Puritans’ theology. Their notion of “religious freedom” is similar to the U.S. Catholic bishops’ notion. It’s a violation of religious freedom when people can make their own choices, and don’t have to obey a hierarchy.
I don’t believe they were expelled?
I might be wrong…
It’s easy to get confused because a lot of people who left England did so because they had no other prospects or no other choice, in the case of criminals or financial delinquents.
Reading up on the founding of the US is a doozy. Essentially, all the rejects of England sailed to the ‘New World’ because there was more opportunity for them there than at home.
The ones who had it good stayed in England.
Basically all the founders and settlers were groups who were too weird for Europe lol
There are porn producers who do such a crappy job that I’d swear they only film so they have legal access to prostitution.
Like 90% of OF “fan meets” are filmed fucks because it’s actually prostitution. Pretty sad they can’t be honest because some people had weir hangups hundreds of years ago
Go on any hookup app or site and you’ll see plenty of “content creators” willing to meet up and “make content.”
What’s weird is that loophole exists and people don’t abuse it.
Like, I get the streetwalkers selling $10 BJs dont, but for “high end” organizations like this, just stick an old school camcorder in the room and let the John keep whatever grainy unidentifiable footage they make during the encounter.
If you’re ever investigated, you’re in the clear. If not, then no one even has to know.
Pretty sure the forms required for filming adult entertainment include personally identifiable information, so no, it’s not just ‘add a camera and now it’s porn’.
Nah. A group tried this in Pensacola and got busted. Can’t remember the details, but they were trying to pass prostitution off as pr0n because camera. Didn’t fly.
I bet employment fraud would have a bigger jail sentence than prostitution.
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It’s called the “First Amendment,” and you’ll find it can be used to justify/unjustify all sorts of things depending on the current government in power.
Not las Vegas, rural parts of Nevada
Was it run by this lady?
Oh sure, blame the capitalist.
I’d blame the communist, but communism is just a red herring.
If the girls were sex trafficked I have a problem with this, if they were free to do as they please, then I have no issue with this.
Since it’s illegal and probably secret from their wives, it opens the client to blackmail, which isn’t good for the public if they’re in government or military.
Regardless of whether someone was trafficked, folks in positions of power chosing* to disregard the law is itself an issue.
Sex shouldn’t be illegal if it occurs between two consenting adults.
Consent can be hard to judge when you have wildly disparate financial powers.
Not really.
I’d give 0 shits if people in ‘positions of power’ smoked marijuana while it was illegal.
Heck, I’d support them for their civil disobedience!
Nothing in the article suggests it wasn’t consensual, but you never know
That is why the context matters.
The client list will likely go in the same vault as Epstein’s. They’re all assets now.
They’re all assets now.
In the age of Trump, are those really assets anymore?
Seems like they’re moreso assets of a bygone era.
Who would have thought it. A brothel in Watertown. Cambridge I can see. What’s next, strip clubs in Belmont, Mitt Romney’s home town?
And this is illegal and newsworthy why?
It’s because when people in highly-sensitive positions of power do things that they want to keep secret, they become a security risk by opening themselves up to the threat of blackmail.
Whether or not they should want to keep their whoring secret is a different matter between them and their families and their voters. I don’t have a censorious take on that, I’m just telling you why it’s a security risk and is newsworthy.
In this day and age where nothing stays secret, how is it hard for elected officials not do stupid stuff like visiting brothels?
Power makes people hungry for more
