The U.S. will mark the anniversary of the January 6 insurrection on Saturday, a milestone that will confer upon the reality-dwelling citizenry a grim reminder of the potency of propaganda and how quickly it can warp perception when introduced into the public square.
Just three years ago, most of the country watched with dismay and horror as a violent MAGA mob beat back authorities and stormed the country’s citadel of democracy. The Donald Trump-incited crush of disillusioned rioters, fueled by a stream of fantastical lies, believed that the 2020 election had been stolen by sinister forces working to undermine the democratic election.
Of course, not only was their belief flatly incorrect, but evidence later emerged indicating that it was Trump who, in fact, had tried to subvert democracy.
Facts, however, have little bearing on the sentiment inside the Republican Party, which has been fed a steady diet of lies and half-truths by Fox News and the rest of the sprawling right-wing media machine. To wit, the false notion that Joe Biden nefariously stole the 2020 election is now widely shared inside the GOP. A CNN poll conducted over the summer found that nearly 70% of Republicans believe Biden’s win was not legitimate, a number that has continued to tick up.
IMO, this event was worse for America and the world than 9/11. What goodwill and credibility can America exercise on the world stage when Trump can incite a violent attack on the US Congress, and he is still the front runner?
If he had convinced the Capital Police to get rid of the metal detectors, as he tried to do, America would be under a Trump dictatorship right now.
As if his capitulation to Russia, Saudi Arabia, China, or North Korea shouldn’t immediately disqualify him, or the millions of dollars he personally received from foreign governments during his presidency.
It’s a matter of degrees … American establishment wants fascism, they are just taking their time getting there.
The problem isn’t Trump, Trump is an idiot and dime a dozen, once he dies, there will be another idiot just like him that the establishment will court and push into our faces every day.
The problem are the millionaires and billionaires of America that are funding all this crap and keep maintaining it all. If all this relied on Trump’s charisma, it would have died out a long time ago … it’s just a huge marketing machine that keeps it afloat.
As long as we keep seeing these headlines, no matter if it’s Trump or someone else … it’s just a sign that the wealthy want fascism to keep growing because they know it will mean a win fall for them at the cost of all of us.
Thanks America … you’re doing a bang up job.
As an American. You are 100% spot on. Had Republicans not enabled and helped trump at every step. He would have gotten nothing accomplished. They were there every hour of every day ready to lick his greasy taint in an effort to please their voters. It could be any idiot. It just happened to be Trump
And what’s sad is blatant and unapologetic mass murdering warhawks like Cheney’s daughter opposed him, and the idiot MAGA flock call her a traitor. Unbelievable.
With many other countries I could agree. But America is the global reserve currency and basically the world’s police. For the theocrats pushing a takeover it wouldn’t end well. F35s and other highly technical defense system would crumble. Our soft power would evaporate overnight. Many Billionaires would wake up only to find their billions are worth a fraction. Sounds Improbable.
This is a pretty solid take imho, but I’m not sure the ultra wealthy see it that way. Look at how deluded they show themselves to be when there isn’t a PR handler in the mix to filter their thoughts on platforms like Xitter. Their ego and hubris from living in the alternate reality their great wealth affords them presents tremendous risk in this situation.
I believe this.
I’m a bit older (40+) and when I was in college, it was pretty popular for students from more prestigious colleges to be paying students at my college and other less prestigious colleges to do original research for them. Plagiarism with extra steps and pay. The poor student gets paid, and the rich student gets to put their name on it and get the grade.
I think the elite have been buying their credentials for too long and fully believe their own lies. They love the smell of their own farts, as it were.
They are so many generations removed from real knowledge about international markets and so on that there is real possibility that they will make the whole house of cards collapse in hubris.
Well, you saw it recently with the two actresses who were charged with paying a fixer to get their children into Ivy League schools. They are rich. Very rich. Their kids didn’t need to go to any school. It’s about the PRESTIGE and CONNECTIONS.
That drunken date rapist Kavanaugh would’ve had an easy life, regardless of anything he did. But his family wanted bragging rights. That’s the way all these fucks are.
There are two types of wealthy people … those who have all the power and those that want all the power
Those already in power probably don’t want change … but those that don’t have it all certainly would like to see change and a reshuffling of wealth and the chance of gaining control of more, or even everything.
Every major change in history never really changed anything … all it ever does is change the actors and players - old wealth gets removed by new wealth - old elites are replaced by new elites
American political and military power will probably always stay the same for the foreseeable future … the question is who will get the chance to sit at the top and rule the world.
What confuses me is that they seem to miss that historically fascists or authoritarians more generally don’t actually pander to the wealthy once they have power, and many wealthy suddenly end up dead or missing. Look at Xi and Putin for instance. Or history.
It’s a rat cage and everyone is chasing after the hunk of cheese above our cage … the ones closest to the top believe that by climbing on those below them, they can reach higher … and those close to the top are desperately trying to pull down the one just above them to gain that extra bit of chance of going up one more level.
The ultra wealthy at the top may or may not want fascism … but those just below them might because they believe in changing the guard, reshuffling the wealth and giving a new group of a privileged people a chance … like you say, every big political authoritarian change came at the cost of removing many wealthy people, but it also meant a new crop of people to fill the gaps.
They finally found their useful idiot who was capable of energizing a portion of the population who previously didn’t believe voting was important.
The majority of the GOP in office will continue to bend the knee to anyone they view to have the same power. And I fear eventually we will see the same action taken on the left.
Power is the most addictive drug.
People don’t realize they tried this 100 years ago, with Smedley Butler. It was called “The Business Plot.” But Butler was honorable, and snitched. Absolutely nothing was done, and most people don’t know who Butler is. He was at the time THE most decorated Marine in history. But he fucked with the money, and they buried him and his legacy. I tweeted Oliver Stone 10 years ago that he should make a biopic about Butler.
I agree … more people should know more about this story … fortunately a 2022 film does highlight it
Thanks! Didn’t know about this fim.
Neither did I. After watching what I thought was just another fiction thriller, I realized it was based on actual events …
Robert De Niro plays the character ‘Gilbert Dillenbeck’, a Marine veteran based on Marine Corps General Smedley Butler
And after just reading the cast list again … holy crap this film has a big list of familiar actors - Christian Bale, Margot Robbie, Anya Taylor-Joy, Chris Rock, Mike Myers, Taylor Swift, Zoe Saldana, Rami Malek, Robert DeNiro
And like I mentioned, you are right, more people should know about this important bit of history which is probably why all these big actors wanted to play in this to promote this film and its story.
It’s so stupid though. The German conservative aristocracy wanted fascism (mainly because they were incredibly unsettled by the post WWI shake ups and terrified of bolshevism) and thought they could control the Nazis to their own ends. That pretty much immediately backfired on them. These people have to see that…
Rich people who think they are gods… weird…
99% of our voting population is going to vote team color no matter what. They don’t care that Biden hasn’t done anything meaningful to put a stop to this, and they’ll argue with me tooth and nail that electing him is a moral imperative anyway.
Fascism is inevitable now.
Seriously though, what other choice do I have with my vote? The reality is we live in a two party system, I have zero power to change it by voting random 3rd party candidates that will never get the support, and the other guy is even worse.
This is the logic that’s given us a 40-year slide into fascism and a near total loss of power.
I’m sorry, but if you’re unwilling to change, you can’t expect things to change. You can look at the last two decades and see the results of electing do-nothing Democrats.
In fact, read up on Idaho for the next step in crises that Democrats are simply going to ignore.
This is the logic that got us Bush.
Nader’s vote total was several times higher than Bush’s margin in both Florida and New Hampshire. Him off the ballot in either of those states would’ve made Gore v Bush unnecessary as Gore would’ve been a clear winner.
It also earned Clinton’s election with Perot being the Republican spoiler for Dole in 96, though I don’t remember which states.
Third parties will always be a spoiler until voting reform happens and plurality winner-takes-all ends.
>This is the logic that got us Bush.
gore won. Bush’s daddy’s friends made him peesident
Gore should’ve won. It’s plainly obvious that there were multiple plan-Bs to assure Bush’s win, between his brothers obviously flawed ballots and the Supreme Court and who knows what else never made national news.
It’s like gerrymandering, voter suppression (by means of strategically making polling places in predominantly Democratic areas more crowded making and blocking mail ballots/early voting difficult if not impossible), and voter purges aren’t enough of a leg up for them…we then find out that they actually have multiple layers of plans to help get a victory one way or the other.
We saw it in 2000, and we saw it in 2020. And we saw how deep the rabbit hole goes when we realized that by crippling the USPS to prevent mail voting, they managed to delay getting their own fake ballots into DC in time.
At what point do we stop calling what the GOP does “politics” and start actually calling it “organized crime”?
Got it, my problem is I’m not applying enough hopes and dreams that the entire system changes because I voted for a write-in.
My plan is to keep voting in local candidates for local offices that are working to make the changes I’d love to see, but until then there’s absolutely nothing I can do at a national level but try to keep the openly evil guy from winning by voting for the most likely other option. If you have a better plan that has a chance of changing anything THIS election cycle, I’d love to hear it and be educated. Honestly, I would!
Local level
This is the only power you have now, and you should absolutely vote progressive locally if a candidate actually has a progressive record. (And many Dems don’t there either.)
At the national level, it’s too late. It doesn’t matter how you vote now. The simple fact is that Biden needs many people to vote for him that are finding it too expensive to live under his governance, and as we saw with Obama trying to hand of the reins to Hillary, that kind of record isn’t something the public is going to buy. When Obama ignored the middle class, they didn’t care that Trump was a racist piece of shit. They only cared that he was the candidate of change.
They’re not going to care that Trump or DeSantis are fascist. They’re going to care that they’re not Biden, and therefore (in the minds of these voters) more likely to make a change that makes their individual lives easier.
Right, so I suck it up and vote Biden so my vote can at least try to counter someone voting the actual proclaimed dictator in the meantime, correct? We’re back to square 1 until any of my preferred local candidates can get to the national level and hopefully push some real change. In the meantime I do the best I can and talk to people about what we could be doing better. Democracy yo. 🤷♂️
Yeah but one half went to college and formed their opinions in open debate and discussion, graded work, with accomplished authors and scholars, the professors, and their peers. Republicans did their own research or went to the school of “hard knocks.”
It’s supposed to be that in the land of the blind, the one eyed man his king. In the land of Republicans they would poke out the man’s eye and claim sight is deep state propaganda. “Don’t look up!”
I would argue that those who graduated from the school of hard knocks are why we have labor laws and unions. It wasn’t college educated people who were the drive behind unions.
Strike: Strikes in the United States
The first nationwide strike occurred in 1877, when railroad workers struck in the middle of an economic depression. With the advent in the 1880s of such labor organizations as the Knights of Labor and the American Federation of Labor, strikes became more frequent. Some of the more important industry-wide strikes in the United States have been those waged by the railroad employees in 1877 and 1894, by the United Mine Workers in 1902 and 1946–47, by the steel workers in 1919, 1937, 1952, and 1959, and by the auto workers in 1937 and 1946. Important local strikes have included those of the Western Federation of Miners in the early 20th cent. and of the Teamsters Union in Minneapolis in 1934.
I highly doubt railroad workers, miners, steel workers, and auto workers all had post-secondary education. If it wasn’t for them striking and pushing for better wages. We would be far worse off. Without better wages, post-secondary education would be a pipe dream for money.
National Association for the Protection of Labour
The National Association for the Protection of Labour was one of the first attempts at creating a national trade union centre in the United Kingdom. The organization was established in July, 1830 by John Doherty, after an apparently unsuccessful attempt to create a similar national presence with the National Union of Cotton-spinners.
Doherty began his career as a cotton spinner as a child worker just ten years old in his home town of Buncrana…Following Doherty’s relocation to Manchester, it was not long before he was involved with the factory workers’ growing movement for higher wages and better conditions. In 1818 he was a leading figure in the spinners’ strike and was imprisoned for two years. Rather than deterring Doherty this merely enhanced his desire to obtain better conditions for himself and his fellow workers and he continued to be an active member of the Amalgamated Association of Operative Cotton Spinners following his release.
I doubt someone who had been working since ten years old in 1800s would have any education other than an extremely basic one. Yet, John Doherty pushed to create a national union to fight for a better future.
What Made the Battle of Blair Mountain the Largest Labor Uprising in American History
Despite the ultimate surrender, one of the many bits of Blair Mountain history that continues to stick out is the diversity of the miner’s army. In 1921, coal company towns were segregated, and Brown v. Board of Education was decades away. However, Wilma Steele, a board member of the West Virginia Mine Wars Museum, says Matewan was one of the only towns in the United States where Black and white children, most commonly Polish, Hungarian and Italian immigrants, went to school together. Other miners were white Appalachian hill folk. Most all were kept apart in order to prevent organization and unionization. It didn’t work. Keeney recalls one incident during the Mine Wars, Black and white miners held cafeteria workers at gunpoint until they were all served food in the same room, and refused to be separated for meals.
Seems like uneducated coal miners were far more progressive.
I will agree that post-secondary education has been a overall boon for progressive politics and for a better society. It can be argued that the chance to get post-secondary education would never be possible if it wasn’t those who graduated from the school of hard knocks. It wasn’t until the uneducated working class fought for better a living, post-secondary education was allowed for those with money.
Yeah, you’re right, some. It was trial lawyers and Ivy Leaguers who won labor rights in America, they argued the cases in courts and in public, and in Congress. Upton Sinclair went to Columbia. FDR went to Harvard and Columbia Law. Who organized the strikes?
Union Activists such as:
César Chávez - Folk hero and symbol of hope who organized a union of farm workers.
Chávez attended more than 36 schools before dropping out after eighth grade.
Eugene V. Debs - Apostle of industrial unionism.
Debs was born on Nov. 5, 1855, in Terre Haute, Ind., the son of Marguerite Bettrich and Jean Daniel Debs, Alsatian immigrants and retail grocers. At 16, he left school to work as a paint scraper in the Terre Haute railroad yards and quickly rose to a job as a locomotive fireman.
William Green - Former AFL president who moved the federation toward “social reform unionism.”
Born in Coshocton, Ohio, in 1873, into an English and Welsh immigrant coal-mining family, Green began working as an underground coal miner when he was 16.
Mother Jones - “The most dangerous woman in America.”
In her early 20s, she moved to Chicago, where she worked as a dressmaker, and then to Memphis, Tenn., where she met and married George Jones, a skilled iron molder and staunch unionist.
Lucy Randolph Mason - Social reformer dedicated to workers’ rights and racial justice.
Mason began her social reform work in Richmond, Va., where she had spent her childhood. As a young girl in her 20s, she supported herself by working as a stenographer but devoted much of her free time to volunteer social service work and political activities on behalf of women’s suffrage.
A. Philip Randolph - Organized the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters and fought discrimination in national defense.
Asa and his brother, James, were superior students. The Randolph brothers attended the Cookman Institute in East Jacksonville, for years the only academic high school for African Americans in Florida. Asa excelled in literature, drama and public speaking; starred on the school’s baseball team; sang solos with its choir; and was valedictorian of the 1907 graduating class. After graduation, Randolph worked odd jobs and devoted his time to singing, acting and reading.
None of these people had any post-secondary education yet were major players of the labor movement.
Post-secondary education doesn’t always equal progressive politics. There is the Chicago School of Economics, which according to Paul Douglas:
“…I was disconcerted to find that the economic and political conservatives had acquired almost complete dominance over my department and taught that market decisions were always right and profit values the supreme ones… The opinions of my colleagues would have confined government to the eighteenth-century functions of justice, police, and arms, which I thought had been insufficient even for that time and were certainly so for ours. These men would neither use statistical data to develop economic theory nor accept critical analysis of the economic system… (Frank) Knight was now openly hostile, and his disciples seemed to be everywhere. If I stayed, it would be in an unfriendly environment.”
There is also conservative post-secondary educational institutes such as: Brigham Young University, Liberty University, Bob Jones University, etc.
While post-secondary education has been a tremendous boon. I really don’t care if they have post-secondary education or dropped out of elementary school. What metric we should be using is are people able to see the injustices in the world.
Yeah but one half went to college
And then they sat through 2-4 decades of Democrats actively voting against the interests of their constituents, ignored it, and vote for them anyway despite the evidence right in front of their eyes.
Democrats aren’t our friends. They stab us in the back while Republicans stab us in the front.
We vote for Democrats because the alternative is getting Republicans. The voting system doesn’t let third parties win. I wish it did. The lesser of two evils is still less evil inflicted on me at the end of the day.
If Democrats lost because people on the left refused to vote for them, they would be forced to change. Problem is everyone claims each election is an existential crisis (doubtful) so you’re never allowed to withhold a vote or vote third party.
Nothing personal against Mike Pence, but there’s a part of me that thinks it would have been better if he’d gotten in that car and been disappeared.
An assassinated vice president would have forced Biden to crack down on fascism harder.
But without effective leadership, the problem’s gotten worse.
If that has happened, I doubt we would have a president Biden or an upcoming election.
I don’t think that’s accurate.
Every other aspect of the attack was unsuccessful, and not only that, but pathetically so. But if they’d manage to assassinate a VP, Biden and his administration would not have been able to simply ignore it. They would have had to act, even if it pisses off the billionaires.
Pence stopped Trump’s group delivering the fake electors to steal the election. If Pence disappeared Trump would have never left office.
Pence made the the last minute stand to save our country. Terrible viewpoints and politics, but at the end he did his job
Because Dan “Potatoe” Quayle told him to not go along with the coup.
Mike fucking Pence and Dan fucking Potatoe Quayle saved our Democracy and the US Democratic Republic.
What a timeline.
Still,… there are many many timelines where it worked, Trump is the Orange King, and I’m dead now from being put up against a wall; so I’ve got that going for me, which is nice.
If they would have assassinated Pence on J6, before the certification, someone else would have stepped in, most likely Grassley. He would have accepted the alternate slate of electors and Biden would not be president.
I guess the law says the senate is supposed to choose someone if the vice president is unavailable to access president of the senate.
Man, I had forgotten about that car thing. I don’t know. They wouldn’t have harmed him. They would have delayed him enough that he couldn’t certify the vote. Then Trump had plans to use the military to seize voting machines (after which he would have obviously lied about whatever his goons found).
The Joint Chiefs memo was very comforting regarding the transition but it came on January 12th and cited the Congressional certification in saying “we will evict him with force on January 21.” If the certification didn’t happen, the transition and the election would have remained uncertain.
I think there is very little appetite in Washington for such uncertainty, but one side of the aisle is treasonous and would gladly acquiesce.
when Trump can incite a violent attack on the US Congress, and he is still the front runner?
remember Adolf Hitler tried to start an insurrection, got caught, thrown in jail, wrote a book, and then got elected and started World War 2.
And remember how much Trump loves dictators.
Ya but…9/11 was brown people, 1/6 was white people.
There is absolutely a difference in how Americans view the people involved. That’s only been reinforced with this incident.
The ONE, and ONLY thing that stopped the coup was Pence growing a backbone at the exact time it mattered. It wasn’t out of honor or duty, it was out of narcissism. He didn’t want to be known forever as the man who facilitated The Corporate Theocracy of America.
imo the genocide in Gaza is far worse
America is geopolitically isolated on its support for Israel, to the point where it’s rapidly accelerating the collapse of its hegemony. We might lose Turkey in NATO, we might lose Egypt’s cooperation on migration, dedollarization is accelerating, normalization between Israel and the surrounding neighbors is dead, international law is a joke, and this is happening at the same time that French imperialism in Africa is also collapsing with coups and revolts.
It’s Joever
EDIT Downvoting me won’t bring back American prestige you fuckin libs. What is Biden going to do when South Africa’s suit against Israel finds them guilty of the crime of genocide? When America is compelled by international law to take available actions to stop genocide?
I’ll tell you what he’ll do! Nothing. When he does, the rest of the world is going to continue leaving America behind. Good riddance. 😜
They’re not down voting you because they’re liberals. They’re down vote you because you’re likely an accelerationis hypocrite. With shitty unconstructive hot takes and zero actual solutions.
You’re talking to a child who provokes others for attention. Stop giving it to them.
An accelerationist would advocate voting for Trump to hasten to collapse of America. I’m not doing that. I’m just not voting for Biden.
Hell, I’m voting down ticket Democrat in case Trump wins and they need to obstruct his agenda! Hardly accelerationism.
I have a proposal, stop sending weapons to the fucking genocide, stop trying to use the military to protect a genocide. It’s not a poster online doing this, it’s our fucking government accelerating things you twat.
Love when a quisling shows up to say I’m the threat
Here’s a proposal for you. As a non linenist Marxist and socialist I agree. As do many Democrats and liberals even. The thing is, our goals have to be realistic and achievable. And realistically what’s achievable is likely either a Biden or Trump presidency. And believe me things will be worse under Trump. For democrats to be able to make any sort of positive change they have to be in control. Even if that means a flawed candidate like Biden.
Had I seen the name of the person I replied to. I either probably would have just downloaded and not replied. And definitely would not have used the term likely hypocrite. It’s a 100% thing with them. And likely with a twat like yourself. U ml are like perpetual 10-year-olds. Your own worst enemies and saboteurs. And a threat to everyone else.
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our goals have to be realistic and achievable
Abolition wasn’t realistic or achievable until we fought a civil war over it.
Not advocating anything! Just something to think about.
Sadly, it’s more complicated than that. See, you have multi-billionaire shareholders in the companies manufacturing the weapons we’re selling, and they will absolutely sue the federal government over lost profits, and The Federalist Society SCOTUS stooges currently in office will rule in their favor. Thanks, Capitalism.
Wait until you learn that the republican agenda will keep doing the same regarding gaza.
That’s why I’m not voting for them. 🙄
Let me guess third PaRtY
No, I’m voting for Hillary Clinton. It’s still Her turn!
Sure, and that hillary clinton is with you in the same room?
If you mean Bill’s wife, she is not running.
You can write in anyone you want dawg
Do you get high fives from the other Cuntrarians and the lunch table for “Owning The Libs?” Do they think you’re a badass?
Trust me, I do this purely for my own enjoyment.
America’s not going down without taking everyone with them.
They’re crazy!
America is taking everyone with them anyway! See the latest climate summit for an example.
I’m more concerned about the American so-called communist who live in their mommy’s basements and troll online.
You’re concerned about something you made up more than runaway climate change. Cool!
Very American.
You’re assuming my nationality.
Not everyone who uses Lemmy is American.
They only make up 4% of the world population in fact.
You’re talking to a Russian troll.
where did they say anything about your nationality?
No, I’m telling you that you post like an American and your politics are like that of an American.
Also, you assumed a lot of shit about me? My parents are passed, I’m a factory worker and live in a trailer, fuck off.
America is the only country in the world with a nuclear first strike policy, and to have used nuclear weapons on civilians. The best thing that can happen for the rest of the world is for it to fall to internal power struggles.
Not quite true, have you heard of the Semipalatinsk Test Site?
I have, and I would say that the circumstances/implications are very different. One was the unforseen negative health impacts of a nuclear test site the other was the use of nuclear weapons on two population centers.
Also that’s whataboutism I think lol. We’re talkin about US crimes
No you are, I’m talking about whatever the fuck I want to thank you very much.
Which is pivoting to USSR bad propaganda in a thread about how the real issue in everyones minds should be the ongoing genocide in occupied Palestine?
Yeah I’m calling that whataboutism lmao
LoL. Best wishes champ.
You’re telling the truth. The only thing Israel is to the US is a another military staging area if shit kicks off in The Middle East. That’s it. That said, Biden is not the entire admisistration. No President is. It takes Congress to change this shit, and way too many defense contrators and their shareholders are making way too much money for this to change.
And also, I can’t remember the exact quote, and I’m paraphrasing, is “People tell you they want to hear the truth, but they’ll hate you for saying it.”
As we saw in 2008 and 2020, it requires such an impossibly huge majority to change anything that it’s a pipedream. Structurally impossible.
As an outsider, I find American obsession over Jan 6th to be absolutely bizarre. At worst it was a riot. How exactly is a riot at the capital going to cause a coup? I’m guessing you too probably have overblown Jan 6th concerns but peoples response to your comment only confirms my thoughts. People are so entrenched in maintaining the “most dangerous thing since the civil war” that they are willing to consume their own over the smallest disagreements.
Also, these people claiming Trump would be worse in Gaza, but it’s not clear the US would be worse in Gaza if Trump won, the US has put up zero road blocks currently and with Trump in the Whitehouse the democrats would actually push back against the genocide because Trump is now president. Plus more negative press from the corporate media, again, because Trump is in charge. Not saying it’s the most likely case, but it can be argued.
Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.
Yeah the riot had no realistic chance of success. A much more realistic coup will be one done by the 6-3 Supreme Court!
I still think it’s fair to call them insurrectionists and treat them as such, but it was hardly “worse for America and the world than 9/11”
Three years later, the ring leader and main benefactor is still free and openly lying.
This country is a joke. Literally incapable of defending itself from the inside. The US is beyond pathetic and will go down in history as such. We are so capable yet choose corruption.
My guy, a country founded on the backs of a native American genocide and then 300 years of slavery, that decrees freedom above all else? You’ve never not been a joke.
My guy, the goodness or badness of the country says NOTHING to refute my point that it is presently utterly and completely failing to defend itself from the inside.
I didn’t realize America invented slavery…
You also didn’t realize that’s not what they said
And of course you get put on every watchlist in the country if you say people should just handle the Donald Trump problem directly and Shinzo Abe him. We do the most to protect that man from lynch mobs even though he was more than willing to use them. And for the record, I’m neither going to murder the man nor incite anyone else to do so, it’s impossible to get away with and I don’t have the balls even if I wasn’t scared of prison, but I guarantee there would be very few tears shed if it did happen and nobody of worth would lose any sleep.
I really hope no one kills him. I’m not sure I’d be able to live another couple of decades with people treating him like a fucking martyr.
He will be a martyr even if he dies at 120 of natural causes in the lap of luxury. The cult has already formed. When he dies, he will ascend and they will wait for his return… or they’ll say he never died at all like JFK, Jr.
And in a couple hundred years there’s gonna be a ladder sitting on Mar a Lago because the various sects of the Trumpian religion can’t agree on who should move it.
Well, if Florida’s not underwater by then.
I’ve known about the ladder for a while. Religion can be horrible but when it’s funny, it’s hilarious.
God. We already have to deal with them idolizing fucking Reagan. And yeah, as long as he is alive and not in office, the chances he goes to jail go up every day.
Political assassination gets rid of a figurehead but revitalizes the entire movement. It’s not a smart thing to do if you want to actually fix problems.
That’s true but there isn’t anyone waiting in the wings who can capture the reactionary imagination like trump. They’ve been trying and they always come up short. I don’t get it because I think trump is an abhorrent waste of space, but his people just love the shit out of him. Without him the entire right fractures and starts infighting.
OR that becomes the event that unifies the right wing together. Don’t underestimate the power of a martyr.
handle the Donald Trump problem directly and Shinzo Abe him.
45 US presidents, 10 assassination attempts with 4 being successful.
A major part of the problems the USA faces is because they believe political problems (well, most problems really) can be solved with the gun.
I don’t know if the problem would be better of not, but political assassination isn’t exactly exclusive to the US. There have been several in Japan, and the most recent on against Abe (done with a gun I might add) actually went a long way to solving the issues that the assassin had with the LDP, namely that the government had a lot of people taking money from the moonies.
When I was a kid, saying Timmy does it too, was never a strong argument even then.
But seriously, compared the other Anglo countries countries the US has an issue with political violence. IIRC, there has never been an attempt against a Can, Aus or NZ leader.
Don’t worry. My bet is he’ll get the Chauvin treatment before getting transferred to country club prison.
Their continued refusal to acknowledge that it was a crime, and the normalization of criminal conspiracy and use of political violence to chill efforts to hold people accountable… all amounts to organized crime masquerading as legitimate politics
I’m still shocked to this day that police weren’t mowing people down as they tried to force their way in. By not doing so, they basically said, “this is fine” IMO.
Some of them on camera got caught removing the barriers and ushering them in.
“Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses”
It’s clear some people haven’t seen the videos that have come out: quite a few people were let in by police. There is also some number of “arrested” people who turned out to be police and there is some evidence of them agitating the crowd.
I’ve got to admit, having seen similar tactics at the G20 protests in Toronto that resulted in total authoritarian overreaction, I’m now reading this telling of Jan 6 as an insurrection with skepticism.
LoL. This is the stupidity that you get from watching Fox News and their ilk. Totally debased from reality.
I don’t watch Fox News, nor am I American.
It doesn’t take a genius to see Jan 6 is more complicated than “chuds attacked the capitol”. “Lefty” mainstream media in America is just a different flavour of neoliberal shit slung by an opposing oligarch. American politics and media are just IRL WWE but with actual stakes and these psychopaths on all sides don’t care who they hurt.
Examples of the IRL WWE in action on the “left”: Kyle Rittenhouse, Nick Sandmann, Johnny Depp. On the “right”: election interference, welfare queens, Planned Parenthood rumors.
As hard as this will be for you to accept, you’re being sold lies just the same as the people you mock for being uninformed.
I’d rather take a principled stance here and protect people’s rights even if I find those people and their actions distasteful, than create a precedent and make those rights harder to protect and uphold later. Some of what happened here is entrapment and its bullshit.
That’s a lot of words to say nothing
God you people are morons
Ok let me simplify it for you: the story you’ve been told is just as fake as the Fox News story. Hope that helps.
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And you have some truth you want to lay on us, or is this just a broadly conspiratorial statement?
Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.
This may be an ESL thing, but your comment communicated no information. Seems to be randomly chosen words with small chunks of your opinion peppered in. But the comment itself makes absolutely zero sense.
Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.
So this was a left wing plot and for the first several hours, as Republicans begged Trump to do literally anything and he refused, he was actually doing what in your mind? Fighting a hidden battle against the deep state? All evidence suggests that Trump was more than OK with what was happening as it furthered his goals and supported his many other schemes of fraud, deception, and intimidation in order to remain in power.
no one is saying it was a left wing plot
Sure lol. Plenty of Republicans have blamed Antifa. But call it what you want, left wing plot, deep state plot, whatever. Whatever it is, it must be a master class in false flag operations considering it played right into everything that Trump had been broadcasting, desiring, and preparing for. They got him to play right along, vocally support the rioters, and withhold any assistance for the targets? Truly the greatest conspiracy of all time.
no one in this thread is saying it was a left wing plot. you’re tilting at windmills.
Like I said, call it whatever you want. It’s still stupid.
Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.
Fuck Putin. Ask him how Democracy’s Dick tastes, and how civilian volunteers with drones kicking his ass feels.
I have a flat earth to sell you!
I can’t tell if you’re agitating on the side of the insurrectionist traitors, or just stating facts. But there were collaborators on the side of the defenders. Multiple law enforcement and active military members have been arrested and charged for their participation of the insurrection.
So you’re saying the Police are complicit with Trump and his violent right wing extremists?
I watched it live. the more aggressive chuds are bad guys, but so are Congress and the capitol police and federal prosecutors and the fuckin media. letting the chuds go is good precedent for my freedom. siding with the police state is bad for my freedom. I don’t need to agree with the chuds to keep shouting “fuck the police”
I don’t need to agree with the chuds to keep shouting “fuck the police”
This is exactly where I’m at. Taking a principled stance here means we protect our own rights down the road, which I think are far more valuable than jailing some gullible idiots.
If it had been a liberal mob, we’d be marking the anniversary of the January 6 massacre, and it’d be a holiday for Republicans.
This. When I first heard I imagined they’d set up a few MG nests and show they weren’t fucking around. I was quite surprised by how little a reaction, especially from the most gun happy country
They were the right colour.
They also had the right political views.
I feel like there’s a major attribute of most of the crowd that affected this…
If they weren’t lily white, it would have be a bloodbath, Tianemen Square style.
The seditionists were likely well armed, so firing at them might have felt like suicide.
My MAGA dad keeps telling me it was an inside job by the Democrats. He’s saying everything was filmed way in advance by actors and everything was peaceful because of this mystical “new evidence” coming out; all the cops were a-part of the FBI, CIA, ect.
QanonCasualties. I’m sorry for your loss.
my parents are like this. i have never taken them seriously regarding anything
My sister was a medical lab tech for over 40 years, in a hospital, and she’s a vaccine denier. I can’t understand that. It’s all Fauci’s fault. But she fills her head with fear and hate from Fox every night.
We like to pretend being smart or in a demanding skill field somehow makes people immune to propaganda.
Studies show it doesn’t, and in fact opens up major blind spots that sometimes cause highly intelligent people to be more susceptible outside their fields of expertise.
On the other hand, Jan6 finally snapped my dad out of his trump worship and he’s already told the family he’s not voting for him.
Of course he’s not voting democrat either, just he’s not voting at all.
Small victory I guess.
Even the Republicans who admit Trump was at fault for the events of 1/6 still say they’ll vote for him.
It isn’t about right and wrong to them, its about getting a fascist in the White House to reorder society into their prescribed hierarchy. Different factions have their grudges: trans people & other sexual minorities, POCs, foreigners, religious minorities, and leftists.
The hatred is what unites them, but they’re too goddamn stupid to see that fascism always eats itself in the end because it constantly needs a new target upon which they can focus their blinding rage.
It’s extremely blatant at this point and they aren’t trying to hide it. Support for Republicans is support for American fascism and Christian nationalism at this point. We really need to start acting like it. You wouldn’t hire a Nazi. You wouldn’t go on a date with one, or allow one in your bar or invite them to thanksgiving. America could defeat Nazis again without lifting a finger, but everyone is too fucking afraid that uncle Marty might get upset to take direct action in their own lives. So we’ll end up back to fighting them in the streets one day.
“When and if fascism comes to America it will not be labelled ‘made in Germany’; it will not be marked with a swastika; it will not even be called fascism; it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism’.”
Look for Republicans to make a holiday of January 6th. It’s only a matter of time.
Just like they won’t let go of the Confederate Memorial Holiday.
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They have Civil War re-enactments in the confederate states. They also fly the confederate flag and say since it was just a battle flag and not the actual confederate flag it isn’t anti American. Refusing to acknowledge that it was a battle flag… against the U.S.
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They didn’t lose. They got beat but they haven’t lost. They’ve just changed tactics and are taking the long game. Really long but starting to pay off. The ideas survived because America failed to provide the education and opportunities that prevent that type of extremism from flourishing…
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The article correctly identifies Fox News and right-wing media as spreading propaganda about Jan. 6th. However, we’ve known Fox News is not a legitimate news source since at least 2000 or earlier. For every article like this, I am internally screaming: ok, but how do we do to fix this?
The biggest problems seem to be:
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Fox News and related right-wing media inoculates viewers against non-extremist sources. They explicitly and implicitly, constantly, tell viewers that other news sources are lying to them and cannot be trusted. When the audience is exposed to actual facts by actual objective reporting, the inoculation kicks in and they immediately reject those facts as liberal lies and conspiracy. Right-wing media frequently also accuses democrats of doing what the GOP is in fact doing in bad faith. Even without evidence, that further undermines legitimate complaints about the GOP’s tactics.
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Politicians exploit the audience this propaganda has created, to scapegoat and harden voting habits. The same propaganda outlets constantly find liberal boogeymen - immigrant criminals, “woke” nonsense stories, minor issues with liberal programs in America that they amplify and distort, international stories of left-wing failures of governance. A combination of 1984-style 2-minutes-of-hate, and “but for the grace of God and the GOP go we” fear-mongering.
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The GOP has successfully tied itself to religion for a huge voting population, and religion for most people is non-negotiable. “Gods, guns and Trump” signs are not just an anecdotal type of supporter - that marriage is the core of the GOP. Religion awards value based on faith, and that actually means the less these voters question Trump and accept him as part of their faith, the better they feel about him. That’s a huge problem.
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There is no required critical thinking training or teaching in schools to help kids understand how to form their own opinions in the midst of essentially information warfare. Schools can’t appear partisan, but to call a spade a spade: Kids are growing up bombarded by propaganda, and by the time they have the facilities to decide for themselves what they think, that environment usually has decided for them.
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My best thoughts for fixing:
- For #s 1-2, voters need to keep the senate and presidency and take the house this year (no big deal!), and implement a “news” media fact-checking law. Defamation/libel laws are not enough to stop this type of propaganda. It would be difficult within the First Amendment, but I think a law formalizing what is considered “news” that sets a cap on opinion pieces, unsupported speculation, and reporting of non-verifiable facts would be a start and not unconstitutional. No speech would be prevented, but Fox News’ brand of trash couldn’t be called “news” any longer. The challenge is creating a legal tool that can’t easily be misused to enforce the very authoritarian propaganda it’s trying to prevent.
- For #s 1-2 and 4, state governments could introduce a comprehensive critical thinking curriculum for kids. It’s objectively non-partisan to help kids critically assess information in the internet/social media age, so this seems sellable as long as it isn’t politicized.
- For #3, I don’t know the best way. I think at least introducing cognitive dissonance showing how different religion tells us to act versus how Trump and company act would be a start, but it’s probably impossible to untangle politics and religion to most on the right.
In fact the whole “parents choice” movement is very openly and explicitly about making sure that children are not taught critical thinking or exposed to ideological diversity in school.
I enjoyed reading your take on this.
As for point #3, is there not already a separation of church and law in the US?
To continue upon others threads. In theory, on paper. You are correct. In practice, that was left behind decades ago. Back in the 1940s the Christian Right began to coalesce. In the 70s it became a prominent voting bloc. Cut to present day and you have preachers telling their congregation who to vote for because they have a wink and a smile contract. Hurt the people we hate and we will give you power.
It’s more than that - you have none other than the Church of Scientology to blame, partially. Thanks to their Operation Snow White back in the 70s, where Scientologists obtained key positions within the IRS and effectively doxxed thousands of IRS members (with the implicit threat of violence), they managed to maintain tax-free status despite operating as a political entity, and killed an entire investigation into their organization in one fell swoop. This spooked the IRS so goddamn much that it changed their entire approach to dealing with religious organizations entirely, and led to the hands-off approach that got us the Moral Majority in the 80s, and the marriage of the GOP to the American religious right.
Unfortunately, “separation of church and state” is a nice goal but leaves a lot to be desired.
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from establishing a particular religion (“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion”). However, even that relatively narrow prohibition has been interpreted even more narrowly by conservative Supreme Court justices who only thinly veil, if at all, their favoritism to their particular religion.
Additionally, non-profit orgs are technically prohibited from endorsing candidates and campaigning. However, conservative churches and their pastors frequently give (again) thinly-veiled instructions to vote for Trump or the GOP, without repercussions.
There is, but that only prevents the government from acting as a religious organization. It doesn’t prevent a group of private citizens from deciding to vote only for religious extremists, thereby filling all the lower offices with theocrats who slowly work their way up the chain until until they control the federal government. All the way they pay lip service to religious freedom until they have the numbers and authority to do away with it.
For point 1, that’s absolutely not getting past the 1st amendment, and it really doesn’t matter that it’s called news. People treat their crazy uncle’s conspiracy Facebook posts as “news” and labeling doesn’t really do much if anything to discourage this behavior.
For the idea of critical thinking and education, this is something that democrats should be campaigning on and promising, although obliquely. It should probably come in the form of increasing funding for schools (MASSIVELY) and then add in media literacy courses and such to the curriculum. Although, that said, there are already schools that do this in some form or fashion, but the problem is that far too many school boards are overrun with nuts, and this ties into point 3…
Religion being tied to governance is a real, real problem. Teaching kids critical thinking is going to teach a lot of them, especially Republicans and Evangelicals, that they are being fed a steady stream of bullshit. We still have enough religious association that even getting this across to Democrats and left leaning in a major way is going to be tricky.
On a hopeful note, the most zealous of this population is dying out. Levels of religion have been steadily dropping for a while now. I think as more of this magical thinking dies out, we’re more likely to see positive improvement. Of course, we have to not become a fascist state in the meantime.
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No it’s just poisoning the people that have no logical thinking and believe anything Trump says.
You’d be surprised. I know personally people who traditionally support the GOP but despise Trump who believe a bunch of the bullshit around January 6 because they hear it from their circles. Like how Antifa was involved.
Have you asked them why antifa would want to delay kicking Trump out of the white house?
They would just claim it was to ‘make the them look bad’ or something similar. That’s the beauty of bullshit; it’s like a perpetual avalanche. It’s overwhelming and incredibly difficult to counter.
Logic has nothing to do with it. It’s pure racism. They’ve been conditioned their whole lives to fear and hate “The Other,” instead of recognizing who’s really fucking them. I.E., the ultra rich.
I’m not a conservative republican, but I do agree not all right wingers are bad, we have a representative democracy because what works for me in my medium sized city dosent work for Matt in New York, or Jerry in BFE Montana. It’s the division that the partisan politics thats truly hurting us all.
Consider that you inevitably consume some propaganda yourself, but one never can see it, until maybe many years after.
Those people don’t want to be fools too, but they don’t see it happening.
The narrative around this event has been downplayed so much that it feels like a non factor for Trump. If it was anyone else in trouble for this there wouldn’t be so much debate.
If it were 150 years ago Trump and a shitton of his supporters would have already been hanged and we wouldn’t be creeping steadily towards fascism.
This was by the far the most horrifying act of treason in world history. And as pointed out by USA TODAY, the ongoing belief that “the election was stolen” is by far the most false and destructive act that continues to poison our country. The article was written by the man Trump himself selected to investigate election fraud, and what he found was that not only did no substantial fraud occur, the little bit he did find was biparitisan, with as many republicans guilty of voting twice as democrats.
Charles Dickens warned in “A Christmas Carol” that the worst fate to befall mankind is Ignorance. And willful ignorance of the truth is a path to ultimate destruction and ruin of all of human society.
It was horrifying. It was treasonous.
But the most in all of world history? I dunno.
Ol’ Guido almost did something bigger than that.
I can’t think of another act so heinous, maybe some that come close. But what makes this one the worst is that it continues to spread poisonous lies throughout our world.
I’m pretty sure Hitler’s takeover of Germany was worse. You still have idiots marching in the streets today claiming to be NAZIs
Or the insurrection that actually managed to kill thousands of Americans, our Civil War.
This was horrific, but getting hyperbolic about it just feeds the right wing propaganda machines further.
I don’t disagree, but to me Hitler at least had a shred of vision. Trump just wants destruction for all of humanity. To me, trump is much worse in every way. And I not a fan of hitler at all. But I’d rather have Hitler as president, or Jeff Dahmer, instead of that sick mass of putried filth that calls itself trump.
I get the sense you’re a bit biased here lol. If you think any of these politicians at the top give a shit about you, you’re wrong.
Trump is just selfish (like most big politicians). You can’t have no vision and a vision for how to destroy mankind at the same time.
It’s a bit illogical to say you hate insurrectionists and people trying to alter society for their own benefit, and also say “id rather have Hitler as a president”.
Do you see the irony here?
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The dangerous thing about Hitler is at least in the beginning he was competent. Trump wasn’t - and so far hasn’t done anything to make me think he’s changed. The thing that has saved us from Trump was his sheer incompetence.
Fair enough, I see where you’re coming from. Id suggest though, that selfishness and greed are easy to predict - moreso than radicals whose country was backed into a corner of starvation and depression by the rest of the world.
“say what you like about Hitler, at least he had vision”
Damn, that’s a really silly thing to have said.
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The night of the long knives comes to mind.
Not by a long way, come on man.
I think 1861 was worse than 1/6.
It’s because we have multiple propaganda channels masquerading as news.
I think people are too literal when trying to understand each other. If someone says they believe in god, it means they identify as someone who believes in god. If someone says they think the election was stolen, it means they identify as someone who thinks the election was stolen. You don’t defeat this with direct education / facts, you give these people an out. They need identities that are constructive and based in reality. Friends, family, culture… it all needs to be rewritten. Then they’ll “believe” in reality.
So why don’t they adopt an identity based in reality like the rest of us?
Is it because they want to hate demographics and the one media that supports that pushes irrational thought because their core components are irrational and it’s easier to control them like that? I’m actually asking, because that’s my best guess.
Unfortunately, yes. Main Street never came back with Wall Street and Hillary never set foot in the rust belt. They’re hurt and afraid. I’m compassion fatigued to give a pass on Nazism but this is their explanation.
Nazis don’t get a pass. People who advocate for violence against people they don’t like don’t get a pass. IDGAF. I’ve tried being open and receptive and all that (this “offramp” idea,) but at least here in the Bible belt all the bigotry and hate is tied directly into the religious suspension of disbelief and they’re not interested in entertaining any ideas that aren’t from their Fox News (or wherever) prophets.
Because reality is a neverending nightmare.
Nobody has the time for that.
That’s an excellent point and probably why things only continue to get worse
You have to drink the poison willingly.
Not necessarily.
