Problem is that if you want to vote for the defense of democracy and progress and tolerance of it, there is nowhere to go. Because USA is realistically only a 2 party system.
Obviously I prefer Democrats over Republican insanity. It’s just that in reality there is no real opposition to MAGA.
And yes it is very much also the fault of Democrats, for failing to modernize democracy in USA.
Democrats need to wake the fuck up, and skip a mentality where they push for an 80 year old President for Christ sake!!!
The problem is that people aren’t able to think realistically and say shit like “Democrats need to go further left to win elections” even though anyone watching at all can see that the country is moving hard right and that strategy would’ve made them fail even harder
No they are not if they had alternatives. Back with Hillary many polls showed that Trump voters would rather vote for Bernie Sanders than Hillary. And that Bernie Sanders had a bigger chance of winning.
Obviously Bernie Sanders is way further to the left. But the moron Democrats wanted a more to the right wall street friendly candidate.
And they got what they deserved.
Yes all we need is a time machine because we know that we cannot suddenly generalize the public opinion of Bernie to also apply during a time where Trump wins an election handily.
How is it different now? Trump won against Hillary, although he didn’t win the popular vote.
Democrats had ruined their chances pushing Biden and demanding everybody pool together behind him.
I personally liked Harris and thought she would win. Why she didn’t IDK, all I know is that the Democratic label is not very strong, and apparently she didn’t bring enough to swing the vote.
In general I just refuse to subscribe to this narrative that voters can be treated like wild animals and that you should never expect even self-preservation because: Democrat bad.
If Bernie were on the ballot this time around he would’ve lost and he might have even back then. Voters and society are trash. And it’s not even necessarily their fault if you zoom out far enough but it’s fucking true.
No kidding Bernie is 83 years old now. It’s like saying Jimmy Carter would have lost!
The problem is that Democrats doesn’t push new younger candidates, with new ideas, they don’t even have to be that new, as long as they aren’t decidedly obsolete.
But the main problem remains that a 2 party system is merely one party better than China.
Many Americans seem to not grasp the truth in that.
You should try criticizing the democratic party without making a point to say that people are right to vote against them. In that case I would potentially be able to converse with you.
without making a point to say that people are right to vote against them
I didn’t do that, I’d NEVER claim anyone is right to vote for Trump. It’s only that the democrats failed to create any enthusiasm at all, and they’ve had decades to try to improve democracy in USA, and has done nothing.
Democrats have been happy with the status quo for decades, so they don’t inspire enthusiasm.
Also I’ll criticize democrats as much as I want. The best thing about them is that they are not sociopaths like the republicans, but that’s a fucking low bar, and still they failed!!!
I don’t understand how people take this away from the election.
There was no progressive candidate this cycle, There was conservative and conservative light. People brought up concerns and they were dismissed because this election was “too important” to talk about genocide
Yea when red states implement multiple forms of voter suppression and the options are coke and diet coke the people who want water aren’t going to take a sip.
Kamala campaigned with liz cheney 🤮 and you guys are like “yea they need to go FURTHER right”. At a certain point you’ve gone so far right you’ve alienated your base. A Democratic party that courts cheney voters doesn’t represent me very much at all.
They made the tent too big and now its drafty in here.
Why the fuck would conservatives vote Democrat when they get everything they want and more from Republicans?
Why don’t people like you join the Republican party and moderate them towards the center instead of dragging Democrats further right?
We already know that a record number of young men went for trump and I don’t care what anyone says if you didn’t vote you’re functionally a Republican voter. You can say what you want but actions are what count.
I voted for kamala, and I agree if you didn’t vote you enabled trump. Democrats didn’t offer young people anything this cycle, they fucked up big time. Trump didn’t offer them anything either but he went on podcasts and shit to promote himself and it worked.
It is fucking idiotic as fuck to see these results and think to yourself that this fuck winning means America is left leaning. LMAO I can’t even process how a real human could actually believe that.
So by your logic obama winning two terms and trump losing as incumbent would reinforce my stance, but we both know it isn’t that simple (at least I do).
There are smart people that vote based on policy and then there are many more dumb people that vote on things like name recognition and likeability which kamala lacked substantially.
But whatever you don’t want to have an actual conversation.
The share of Democrats who want their party to take a more moderate approach has risen significantly—11 percentage points
I have heard some people stupidly say that democrats “have gone too far left” which I don’t really agree with, but I also recognize there are uninformed and stupid people out there who do indeed feel that way. It largely is surrounding trans issues. Some people are still struggling with that one because they don’t know a trans person. Just like when people didn’t know any openly gay people, they didn’t really get it. I think/hope that will change slowly over time, but for now there will be some dipshits still mad that “democrats are radical now!”
Not necessarily. There was a large pool of non-voters, if a lot of those were disillusioned leftists who didn’t see anyone worth voting for then appealing to them might have been a winning strategy.
It’s interesting how the situation is always dire enough that leftists are expected to abandon all their principles and give their full throated support to the latest corrupt war criminal from the DNC, and yet it’s never so dire that Democrats should be expected to actually try to court leftists, or even to stop relentlessly attacking them.
I don’t see the country moving right, I see it rejecting the norms. They want someone in power who tells his opposition “fuck you I do what I want” and breaks all the rules. People want things to change, no matter the cost.
Democrats moving to the left wouldn’t necessarily solve this problem either. A farther left candidate that still wants to follow all the rules would lose. They want someone who is going to break stuff.
I don’t see the country doing anything. I see a faction of the elite attempting to seize totalitarian control, loot the government, commit treachery against allies and crash the economy.
Problem is that if you want to vote for the defense of democracy and progress and tolerance of it, there is nowhere to go. Because USA is realistically only a 2 party system.
Obviously I prefer Democrats over Republican insanity. It’s just that in reality there is no real opposition to MAGA.
And yes it is very much also the fault of Democrats, for failing to modernize democracy in USA.
Democrats need to wake the fuck up, and skip a mentality where they push for an 80 year old President for Christ sake!!!
The problem is that people aren’t able to think realistically and say shit like “Democrats need to go further left to win elections” even though anyone watching at all can see that the country is moving hard right and that strategy would’ve made them fail even harder
Yes, if the Democrats were just even further right they would surely win the election…
No they are not if they had alternatives. Back with Hillary many polls showed that Trump voters would rather vote for Bernie Sanders than Hillary. And that Bernie Sanders had a bigger chance of winning.
Obviously Bernie Sanders is way further to the left. But the moron Democrats wanted a more to the right wall street friendly candidate.
And they got what they deserved.
Yes all we need is a time machine because we know that we cannot suddenly generalize the public opinion of Bernie to also apply during a time where Trump wins an election handily.
How is it different now? Trump won against Hillary, although he didn’t win the popular vote.
Democrats had ruined their chances pushing Biden and demanding everybody pool together behind him.
I personally liked Harris and thought she would win. Why she didn’t IDK, all I know is that the Democratic label is not very strong, and apparently she didn’t bring enough to swing the vote.
In general I just refuse to subscribe to this narrative that voters can be treated like wild animals and that you should never expect even self-preservation because: Democrat bad.
If Bernie were on the ballot this time around he would’ve lost and he might have even back then. Voters and society are trash. And it’s not even necessarily their fault if you zoom out far enough but it’s fucking true.
No kidding Bernie is 83 years old now. It’s like saying Jimmy Carter would have lost!
The problem is that Democrats doesn’t push new younger candidates, with new ideas, they don’t even have to be that new, as long as they aren’t decidedly obsolete.
But the main problem remains that a 2 party system is merely one party better than China.
Many Americans seem to not grasp the truth in that.
You should try criticizing the democratic party without making a point to say that people are right to vote against them. In that case I would potentially be able to converse with you.
I didn’t do that, I’d NEVER claim anyone is right to vote for Trump. It’s only that the democrats failed to create any enthusiasm at all, and they’ve had decades to try to improve democracy in USA, and has done nothing.
Democrats have been happy with the status quo for decades, so they don’t inspire enthusiasm.
Also I’ll criticize democrats as much as I want. The best thing about them is that they are not sociopaths like the republicans, but that’s a fucking low bar, and still they failed!!!
I don’t understand how people take this away from the election.
There was no progressive candidate this cycle, There was conservative and conservative light. People brought up concerns and they were dismissed because this election was “too important” to talk about genocide
Yea when red states implement multiple forms of voter suppression and the options are coke and diet coke the people who want water aren’t going to take a sip.
Kamala campaigned with liz cheney 🤮 and you guys are like “yea they need to go FURTHER right”. At a certain point you’ve gone so far right you’ve alienated your base. A Democratic party that courts cheney voters doesn’t represent me very much at all.
They made the tent too big and now its drafty in here.
Why the fuck would conservatives vote Democrat when they get everything they want and more from Republicans?
Why don’t people like you join the Republican party and moderate them towards the center instead of dragging Democrats further right?
Nothing you’ve said here aligns with fuckall truth wise or what I said
"even though anyone watching at all can see that the country is moving hard right and that strategy would’ve made them fail even harder "
Im sorry I must’ve misunderstood you, did you not say the country was going to the right? Because if you did I disagree with that assessment.
Lol says the person commenting on the country where neo Hitler just got elected
do you think in america that the person elected represents the will of the people?
A country with rampant voter disenfranchisement
A country using the outdated conservative leaning electoral college
A country where over 1/3 of people didn’t vote in the most recent election
The country isn’t moving right, people just didn’t like kamala
We already know that a record number of young men went for trump and I don’t care what anyone says if you didn’t vote you’re functionally a Republican voter. You can say what you want but actions are what count.
I voted for kamala, and I agree if you didn’t vote you enabled trump. Democrats didn’t offer young people anything this cycle, they fucked up big time. Trump didn’t offer them anything either but he went on podcasts and shit to promote himself and it worked.
It is fucking idiotic as fuck to see these results and think to yourself that this fuck winning means America is left leaning. LMAO I can’t even process how a real human could actually believe that.
So by your logic obama winning two terms and trump losing as incumbent would reinforce my stance, but we both know it isn’t that simple (at least I do).
There are smart people that vote based on policy and then there are many more dumb people that vote on things like name recognition and likeability which kamala lacked substantially.
But whatever you don’t want to have an actual conversation.
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Zero people said this bullshit
I’ve heard it talked about plenty. They dont seem to realize that doing that is how Harris lost.
https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-want-party-move-right-poll-2030713
I mean, okay, fair enough. I hadn’t read this.
I have heard some people stupidly say that democrats “have gone too far left” which I don’t really agree with, but I also recognize there are uninformed and stupid people out there who do indeed feel that way. It largely is surrounding trans issues. Some people are still struggling with that one because they don’t know a trans person. Just like when people didn’t know any openly gay people, they didn’t really get it. I think/hope that will change slowly over time, but for now there will be some dipshits still mad that “democrats are radical now!”
That’s not true I’ve seen multiple people say Democrats failed because they didn’t pivot to the right hard enough
Not necessarily. There was a large pool of non-voters, if a lot of those were disillusioned leftists who didn’t see anyone worth voting for then appealing to them might have been a winning strategy.
You say disillusioned leftists, I say accelerationist anti-moralists
It’s interesting how the situation is always dire enough that leftists are expected to abandon all their principles and give their full throated support to the latest corrupt war criminal from the DNC, and yet it’s never so dire that Democrats should be expected to actually try to court leftists, or even to stop relentlessly attacking them.
I don’t see the country moving right, I see it rejecting the norms. They want someone in power who tells his opposition “fuck you I do what I want” and breaks all the rules. People want things to change, no matter the cost.
Democrats moving to the left wouldn’t necessarily solve this problem either. A farther left candidate that still wants to follow all the rules would lose. They want someone who is going to break stuff.
I don’t see the country doing anything. I see a faction of the elite attempting to seize totalitarian control, loot the government, commit treachery against allies and crash the economy.
The country did vote, if you recall.
I’m saying the voters chose Trump because he promised to break the rules, not really because he’s right wing.
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Thanks Universalmonk supporter